A question.

[Herr Doktor]

Yes I have a brief question if I may.

And yes I have carefully read and reread all the rules of this forum.

I was hoping to view the thread "Brass 17th-18th Century Style Dirk" in this the sub-forum 'Historically Made Kilts and How To Wear Them' and see that it has been censored (if that is the correct description) because of this debate around "Rule 11 violation".

To my great disappointment it has been made unavailable for my viewing.

My question is this: Why is it permissible for items of the same nature to be showcased in the sub forum 'DIY Showroom' and yet not in this ones? Yes I read the contentious debate in the Jacobite thread and it is of my understanding that the thread must have reference to the kilt included within the posting. Yes that is very good as this is all about the kilt, yes?
But there are many treads over in the DIY kategory that do not konnect to the kilt anywhere within it's thread. One is left to inferr
that is to be used in conjunctions with the kilt in some way, yes?

An example thread from that sub forum which must fall into that kategory is this: "Sgian Dubh #3 in progress"

And if I can imagine that to go through that sub forum there would be many more of it's nature, yes?

So in summation, are all threads of this nature to be subjected to removale no matter where they fall, or just into this forum "Historically Made Kilts and How To Wear Them"?

I abhor the censorship of history or anything for that matter. The responsible adult is mature to pass their own judgement, yes?

Enough, I only would like to look at this "Brass 17th-18th Century Style Dirk".

Herr Doktor.

[Father Bill]

Mein Freund,

All is nicht so klar oder leicht. The trouble as you must realize is that while rules may exist, we require and trust mature individuals to interpret them. The reasons for this particular rule are as stated I'm sure, but of course there will be times when we disagree with the application of them.

I note the ongoing and strenuous efforts of our moderators to review, revise, clarify and explain the rules of the forum. Do I agree with every decision? Well, no, but I deeply respect the thought that goes into them and for that reason I'm willing to accept the decisions made. This is the nature of the intepretation process I identify. At national levels, the parallel is simple: we have legislation. We also have courts to interpret and apply it. Are errors made? Well, due to a lack of robots and computers we need to employ human beings to apply the process.

In this particular case there are many factors to be considered, possibly even beyond "Is it kilt related." We need to consider context, the type of weapon involved, its level of historical significance, and probably other issues as well. We seem to have lost one respected member of the group over this decision. That is sad, however, I prefer those occasional unfortunate losses to the possibility of losing the entire forum should it descend to online warfare.

In summary, while I may disagree with some decisions (and I would wager that some of the moderators disagree with some of them too) I staunchly uphold their right to make them, the need for them to make them, and the individual decisions made.

Every blessing,

Bill+

[Friday]

see above post.

[Richrail]

*** Father Bill.

[TheOfficialBren]

+ 1, padre!

[MacMillans son]

And as we learned in Steve's post last week, if no one complained about the weapon being displayed discussed etc. then the moderators are inclined not to get involved.

[Steve Ashton]

I will attempt to answer your question Herr Doktor, to the best of my ability right now.

Yes, we know that the rules are not perfect. They are always subject to change as our membership and their wishes change.

The thread you refer to was not 'edited'. Other things were going on in the thread and it was reported to the staff as a possible rule violation. The thread needed to be removed from the forum and is now in our "Holding Cell".

Your question is valid. Was the rule able to be enforced consistently? No, I'm sorry the rule, as written, does not cover every case.

We have been discussing this issue among the staff and have asked for input from some of our members. It is our members who tell us where to set the limits of behavior should be, and it is the membership that will finally decide where the limits will be on this issue.

I thank you for bringing this up as we do need to know what the members think. Your post was well thought out and well worded. It does help a lot.

[Tobus]

At the risk of wading into this controversy, it appears once again that Rule #11 has been a constant source of problems. Especially since certain weapons are part and parcel of Highland attire. The rule itself seems to be written as delicately as it can be, considering the past history of issues relating to weapons discussions. But the problem is, as mentioned, with enforcement. This idea that no rules will be enforced unless a member complains will naturally lead to only selective enforcement. One poster can freely discuss his weapon project while another will be quickly shut down, and it depends solely on whether some anonymous complainant decides to report it. This seems patently unfair to those who wish to discuss their kilt-related items. They cannot know whether they'll be mod-slapped or not, since it's the membership (and not the mods) who initiates the process.

[Father Bill]

Tobus, you're right as far as you go, and that is that if somebody does complain, the moderators may still choose to say, "No, this is not really and truly a violation." More than that, it's by a voting process in which each moderator has a say. In this way, should a complainant pass something on, the moderators' role is to decide whether the compaint is justified.

I have also on occasion sent in a report, not because something was a violation, but because tempers were flaring far out of control and I thought that the moderators might want to just moderate the situation a bit more closely for a while. In effect, I trust this body of men and women who have been selected by their peers based on the online personality and restraint they have demonstrated. In those very few cases I've not been making a complaint, just watching for the characteristic kindliness of this forum.

Bill+

[Chas]

Let us not forget that the moderators are also members. They do not hang in a wardrobe like and old raincoat and only brought out when needed. If they see something that they believe is offensive or an infringement of the rules, of course, they bring it to the other mods attention.

Regards

Chas