A few questions before I tear into this tartan...

[Celtic Mom]

Hello everyone,

I am planning my 7 year old's dancing kilt, and I have a few questions that I would like to pose before I really get going (and then I'm sure many more after I get going . I have TAoK, and I made a "practice kilt" while I was waiting for her tartan out of cotton twill. I learned a lot and made some mistakes that I'm glad I made with the cotton rather than the tartan. This is my daughter wearing the practice kilt in a Fourth of July parade.

I made the practice kilt with the following measurements:
Apron Pleats
Waist - 21.5" 11.5" 10"
Hips - 26" 12.5" 13.5"

My first question is the practice kilt seemed to fit her just right, but I want to get a decent life out of an actual tartan kilt. Should I make the kilt to these measurements? I was contemplating adding 0.5" to both the waist and hips measurement. Also, are there any suggestions to the split measurements?

My second question has to do with the tartan and the hem. This is the tartan, Dress MacRae of Conchra from Tartantown. I have been digging through the forums, and read Barb's post urging caution(thank you Barb!) due to some dress tartans not being as opaque as others, and the black line on this one definitely needs careful placement, especially where the black intersects. My initial thought was to do a 2.5" hem which would have put the small black line at the bottom of the hem, but I would prefer to have the hem where the 5.5" mark is, I think it would look better, and have more length to let out since the selvedge is not a kilting selvedge I would only have about 1.5 inches to let down with the first option. Is 5.5" too much to put into a hem? If so would it be plausible (or recommended) to tear the selvedge off to reduce bulk?

Thank you, without this forum I would not have the courage to attempt this!
Carrie

[Grizzly]

Carrie I can't help with your technical question but what I can say is that you did a damn fine job on your daughters first kilt. Well done.

[Celtic Mom]

Thanks, Simon!
I made a fair amount of mistakes on it and since it turned into a race against the clock the night of the third (more like the wee hours of the morning of the fourth) the lining and facing can only be described as a hot mess! In spite of that I was pleased with how it came out overall.

Carrie

[Llama]

I don't have any practical advice, but it seems that your daughter isn't likely to get any smaller, so it seems safe to make her current measurements fit the smallest buckle hole.

I'm in very similar boat, reading Barb's book and looking for fabric for a practice kilt while the Ry'leh tartan is being made. Would you mind sharing the mistakes that you made, in hopes that others will not make them in the future?

[Lorna]

If you have enough tartan it seems reasonable to rip off the the selvedge to make things work out as to where the hem falls in the tartan. Rolling the hem would probably be too bulky. If you haven't already, check out the middle paragraph of the Hints and Tips on page 53 of TAoK. Seems like you're on the right track. I wish I had known about Barb's book when my daughter was getting into dancing. Good luck and welcome!

[xman]

I wouldn't put a line at the bottom edge, it looks too odd. I also think 5" is way too much hem. I don't know how heavy the fabric feels, but giving it a 3" hem, swallowing the black and a little white, should look nice and still leave growing room.

[Celtic Mom]

Llama,

Some of my mistakes could be partially attributed to the fact that it was a self color kilt. My measurement for the fell moved little bit by little bit until I was off by about half an inch (I thought I hated ripping out machine stitching, it is really painful to rip out hand stitching), I cut a bit to close to the fell when I was steeking with a few of my cuts, somehow I managed to add the extra inch to the under apron, but not the apron. The thing that was the hardest for me was stitching the join. I never was satisfied with how that looked, I'm planning on practicing with some scraps of the tartan until I have it how I want it.

Lorna,

Thanks for the page reference from TAoK! It says to have at least a 2" hem, with 3" being preferable, but sadly it doesn't say how much hem is too much. I am hoping that someone here with more expertise can tell me if too much hem would make the kilt behave strangely.

Xman,

My thoughts exactly on the black line at the bottom. My problem is the pesky horizontal black line. When folded behind the tartan it can be seen as a shadow through the front. My thought is to fold it so the horizontal black line is behind the next horizontal black line where it can remain hidden.

Thanks!
Carrie

[Barb T]

Hi Carrie,

On your first question, I always add 1/2" to the measurements of any kilt that I make but put the buckles on at the actual measurements. That way, if someone grows even a tiny bit the underapron won't show. I think for your daughter, adding even an inch to her measurements and putting the buckles on at her current measurements won't be a problem.

I've actually put a 5" hem into a kilt before - I'm drawing a blank on why I did it, but it was one of those "no choice" things. Maybe I was taking up the hem on an existing kilt?? Anyway, it actually worked OK. Whether that's a good choice to make or not really depends on the length of the kilt. You daughter looks tallish for her age, so it could be OK. And you'll eventually let some of it out anyway. I would not rip the selvedge off, because you don't want a raw edge, and turning it double will make it way too bulky.

But why don't you just turn it up so that the black line is just behind the pink, at the 4" line? I don't see any reason why you need to go to 5.5". Or fold it just above the black line at about 2.75"? I honestly don't think that the black line would show if it were just on the inside of the kilt at the very bottom. Try it and see.

Splits look fine!

A comment for Llama: if you're going to practice, get a piece of inexpensive wool. Trying to make a kilt from cotton using the instructions in TAoK is tough, because the instructions are predicated on being able to shape the fabric by stretching and pressing, which you just can't do with cotton.

[Celtic Mom]

Thank you, Barb! I didn't see that option before.

I will echo the fact that cotton is hard to work with. I had it on hand for a project I didn't get to, so decided to try it. It was also murder on the fingers with the hand-stitching.

Since I can't get rid of the over-zealous attachment, is it normal to have sections that are way off kilter? There is a section of tartan at one of the ends, luckily, that is skewed. There is a large curve in the selvedge and none of the lines match up. What is the best way to deal with these?

[Barb T]

This does happen with tartan, but the example in your picture is particularly bad. It looks like you're lucky that it occurs only at the end of your piece, and you can just hide it in the apron or underapron facing.

What happens more commonly is that the width of the tartan on one side of the center fold line of a double width piece is consistently less than the width on the other side (as opposed to being confined to one section). I always check before I lay out a kilt to see if they match or not. I even sent a length back to a reputable mill on one occasion when the difference was more than half an inch and asked them to replace it with a ripped single width 8 yards long. They did this, and I haven't had any trouble with that mill since. Maybe they adjusted either their looms or the fulling process.

Aaaaanyway, it's really common to have one half be 1/4" or so narrower than the other. Since you always rip both pieces at the same place in the tartan repeat, this makes the piece for one half of the kilt narrower than the other. I always lay out the apron side on the wider piece - that way, the shorter piece will be underneath and won't take a chance of hanging out under the apron. And, at the join in the middle of the back, you just match the stripes and steam the seam to fit flat. If half the pleats are a bit shorter than the other half, it's not really noticeable.

BTW -what mill wove this tartan?