Irish versus Gaelic

[TheOfficialBren]

I have wondered about this for years. I speak only a few words and phrases so Gaelic-speakers please chime in. I'd love to glean from your knowledge.

This guy has an interesting video defining the differences between the terms "Irish" and "Gaelic" when speaking of and in the tongue of the Gaels.

http://youtu.be/sWBUnixqX5g

[ASinclair]

That was very interesting. Thanks for posting the link, Bren.

[neloon]

As he says himself, it's from an Irish point of view. For example, he perpetuates the myth that the Gaelic of Scotland had its origins in Ireland whereas both p-Celtic (Pictish, Welsh, Cornish, Breton, Galician) and q-Celtic (Scots/Irish Gaelic, Manx) existed as separate strands in Europe and both came to "mainland" Britain whereas only q-Celtic went to Ireland. Scots and Irish Gaelic are generally much more similar than he implies - in fact, many contributors to BBC Alba (TV) or BBC Radio nan Gaidheal (Radio) are Irish Gaelic speakers and, apart from accent differences, there is very little problem in mutual intelligibility. By the way, Gaelic is always pronounced Gaalik and NEVER Gaylic in Scotland.
It may interest some of you "Celtophiles" that Gaelic is spoken by about 80,000 people in Ireland and 60,000 in Scotland, whereas Welsh is spoken on a daily basis by 500,000 in Wales!
Alan

[John_Carrick]

It may interest some of you "Celtophiles" that Gaelic is spoken by about 80,000 people in Ireland and 60,000 in Scotland, whereas Welsh is spoken on a daily basis by 500,000 in Wales!
Alan

In the 2011 Census for the Republic of Ireland, about 83,000 people said they spoke Irish on a daily basis (excluding in school), but about 1.7 million claimed to be able to speak Irish.

[MonkeyRogue]

It seems the Irish has taken root across the world a bit more too. Sure, the kilt is identified as a Scottish item, but the language people think of is Irish. Here in the states the only "Celtic" origin bars you see are all "Irish" in nature. I've yet to run across a purely Scottish heritage bar/pub.

I don't see any Scottish Folk Singers, not even Nova Scotia, popping up very often. In fact, all of my favorite bands seems to be Irish. Having said that, Dropkick Murpheys had/has (I haven't checked in with them in a long time) a Scottish lead singer I believe.

I'm wondering, does anyone know the reason for this profusion of Irish culture, but the Scots not really being celebrated? Not so much a complaint, just curious.

Happy to report, however, that Rosetta Stone has an Irish Gaelic program. Sadly...nothing else so far. Would we be remiss if we used that to learn the basic language?

[O'Callaghan]

In the 2011 Census for the Republic of Ireland, about 83,000 people said they spoke Irish on a daily basis (excluding in school), but about 1.7 million claimed to be able to speak Irish.

Because they have to learn it in school, the number of people who can speak Irish is very high, almost half the population, whereas as it is only a first language in the Gaeltacht (which mostly corresponds to Connaught, in the West, the least populated part of the country) and for some people (a minority, obviously) in Dublin city.

[O'Callaghan]

It seems the Irish has taken root across the world a bit more too. Sure, the kilt is identified as a Scottish item, but the language people think of is Irish. Here in the states the only "Celtic" origin bars you see are all "Irish" in nature. I've yet to run across a purely Scottish heritage bar/pub.

I don't see any Scottish Folk Singers, not even Nova Scotia, popping up very often. In fact, all of my favorite bands seems to be Irish. Having said that, Dropkick Murpheys had/has (I haven't checked in with them in a long time) a Scottish lead singer I believe.

I'm wondering, does anyone know the reason for this profusion of Irish culture, but the Scots not really being celebrated? Not so much a complaint, just curious.

Happy to report, however, that Rosetta Stone has an Irish Gaelic program. Sadly...nothing else so far. Would we be remiss if we used that to learn the basic language?

The Irish probably stayed further apart from others in the US as targets of discrimination, although few people living remember when that was commonplace. In addition, most of the pipebands, and hence most of the kilt wearers, are Irish American, because most of them represent police and fire departments, and those jobs remain disproportionally Irish American due to the aforesaid historical discrimination and the difficulty of finding alternative employment at one time.

There aren't really so many clusters of Scots sticking together in America.

There are actual Irish classes offered in this part of Maryland, which I may perhaps attend. There was a historic concentration of Irish in Baltimore, as well as Native Americans and later African Americans. OK, I'm not all that near Baltimore, but I don't think there is a historically Scots area in any part of the state, apart from a small town called Scotland.

[OC Richard]

both p-Celtic (Pictish, Welsh, Cornish, Breton, Galician) and q-Celtic (Scots/Irish Gaelic, Manx) existed as separate strands in Europe and both came to "mainland" Britain whereas only q-Celtic went to Ireland.

In Celtic: a comparative study of the six Celtic languages author D. B. Gregor speaks of a faint P-Celtic substratum perceptible in the oldest Irish literature. I don't have the book to hand just now, but as I recall he doesn't give specific examples. I need to get the book and check the notes.

[tky58]

As I tell people: my grandmother could speak Gaelic, my mother could swear in Gaelic and I knew when my mother was swearing in Gaelic.

[Nathan]

It seems the Irish has taken root across the world a bit more too. Sure, the kilt is identified as a Scottish item, but the language people think of is Irish. Here in the states the only "Celtic" origin bars you see are all "Irish" in nature. I've yet to run across a purely Scottish heritage bar/pub.

I don't see any Scottish Folk Singers, not even Nova Scotia, popping up very often. In fact, all of my favorite bands seems to be Irish. Having said that, Dropkick Murpheys had/has (I haven't checked in with them in a long time) a Scottish lead singer I believe.

I'm wondering, does anyone know the reason for this profusion of Irish culture, but the Scots not really being celebrated? Not so much a complaint, just curious.

Happy to report, however, that Rosetta Stone has an Irish Gaelic program. Sadly...nothing else so far. Would we be remiss if we used that to learn the basic language?

Irish stuff is enjoying a period of popularity. Bands like the Pogues made it cool to a wide range of people and inspired other bands to remake the music in a punk mould.

Scottish folk stayed more traditional and their crossover acts aimed more to the adult contemporary and country markets. The folk rock influenced groups like Runrig and Silly Wizard appealed to the rockers rather than the punks and so that's a separate strand. You'll find a lot of Scottish folk in soft-seat theatres and folk festivals than in Irish pubs.

I play both Irish and Scottish music in order to stay busy. In fact, I grew up with Scottish Gaelic and instrumental music along side Anglo-Irish ballads and pub songs.

Scottish music doesn't seem to be as comfortable promoting the drinking music stereotype. It is, generally speaking, slower and more plaintive. We like being sad. The Irish have this kind of music also, but they balance that with the rousing drinking songs. Scottish music has some of these but far fewer than say, the Irish or Newfoundland traditions.

One main difference between Irish and Scottish pubs here is that all of the Irish pubs have a sound system or stage for live music and the Scottish pubs don't.

They make their money selling single malt and don't want to give up the table space I suppose.

The best way to find Scottish folk music is to check out the tour schedules of artists you like to see when they'll be coming your way.

Some to check out:

Natalie MacMaster
Julie Fowlis
Mary Jane Lamond
Ashley MacIsaac
Barry Shears
The Barra MacNeils
Cathy Anne MacPhee
Beolach
Alasdair Fraser
The Rankins
Old Blind Dogs
Ecosse
Wolfstone
Battlefield Band
Capercaillie
Enter the Haggis
Hadrian's Wall