A new consolidated Jacket Conversion Thread

[MacLowlife]

We frequently see "converted" jackets- blazers and sport coats that started life designed to be worn with trousers, but now altered to look "right" with kilts.

Several Xmarkers have posted useful threads showing parts of the process or showing their converted jackets. I propose here to accept postings of any and all conversions- good, bad, frustrating. Please submit yours here. Before and after pictures are great, but also pictures with rulers in them or other guides to how much you cut away, etc.

I have some pictures to share later, but I'd like to start with my favorite theories on proportion, selecting a candidate, and variations. The origin of the kilt jacket is Traditional Highland Civilian Dress, but this thread is not intended to be limited to THCD jackets.

OK, the first thing to know and remember about kilt jackets is that they are usually shorter than saxon ones. How much shorter ? Maybe not as much as you think. The most reliable rule of thumb is to compare sleeve length to the length of the jacket. The "average" sleeve on a saxon jacket ends about 6-8 inches above the jacket hem, while the average kilt jacket sleeve extends 2-4 inches below the jacket hem. There are plenty of variations, either because the owner has long arms or short arms, or because he likes his jackets short or long through the body. Recently, a style of "contemporary" jacket has emerged that favors a much shorter jacket through the body, but my experience is that these are still longer than a kilt jacket.

I'd like to interrupt myself to talk briefly about sleeve length. Military sleeves are generally longer than civilian sleeves. One theory is to allow for the sleeve to still cover the wrist when the wearer has bent or raised his arm, say, while playing a bagpipe or saluting. To my mind, long jacket sleeves are a dead giveaway that you do not have a tailor and you don't understand the value of good fit. If your shirt sleeves stop at or around the wrist joint, it is nice to "show a little linen"- that is, have your jacket cuff end 1/2" to 3/4" above the shirt cuff. But, as we like to say, The Highland Dress is a Free Dress and you can wear your sleeves any way you like.

But we were talking about jacket length- specifically the length of the body or skirt of the jacket. If you are looking at a jacket or doublet with tashes, also called Inverness skirts, the body of tghe jacket ends and the flaps/skirts/tashes begin, usually at a seam. If you are looking at a Montrose doublet, the jacket ends a little higher, similarly to an "Ike" jacket or a classic cowboy denim jacket- or even a leather motorcycle jacket. I have a pet theory about converting a blazer to a Prince Charlie, which I will mention below, but this thread is intended primarily to be about the Crail/ Argyll/ Argyle/ Braemar jacket- the lapelled, short jacket designed to be worn with kilts.

OK, we don't have all day, so let's get to the nitty gritty. Jackets usually come single and double breasted. For our purposes, DB is not quite right, that is, Single Breasted is the way to go. People have tried double breasted with varying success, but that is another topic. Single Breasted jackets are designed to close at or near the waist with one, two or three buttons. We might see four on a very tall gentleman or on a jacket that has a very high gorge ( see below) such as a Norfolk jacket, but you are probably not going to run into one of them at the Goodwill.

The gorge is the open V shape left over above the closed portion of the jacket. On kilt jackets, the buttons are usually not buttoned, but, in keeping with a principle of menswear that might be called "Plausible Deterrence" we traditionally wear jackets that CAN be buttoned. Living dangerously, you know- all of that temptation to button up and the unswerving commitment not to do it. But you need a jacket that CAN go around you, even if you are going to always wear it open.

So, usually, the number of buttons affects the length of lapels. A 1 button jacket shows a lot of chest- that is, the gorge is low. 2 Buttons tend to have a higher gorge, though not always- sometimes the top button is placed the same way a 1 button jacket would have it. And 3 buttons tend to have an even higher gorge.

There is a week's worth of discussion here, but let's move on. One old rule is that you always button the middle button, you sometimes button the top one, and you never button the bottom one. If there is only one, you button it. If there are two, you button the top one.

Why does this matter? Because converting a jacket requires you to cut away a space for the sporran and that usually involves removing the bottom button and button hole. What is left is going to looks good or bad or ugly, depending on the proportions of the lapels, which in turn depends on the number of buttons and on the depth of the gorge.

Cutting to the chase, we want as high a gorge as possible. A low gorge leaves you with long lapels that are no longer balanced visually by a long space below the button.

On the same note, when we go to cut away the skirt, it is probably useful to bear in mind what will remain below the pocket flaps. To my eye, you need a space AT LEAST Twice as wide as your pocket flap between the bottom of the flap and the hem of your garment.

I have ideas about vents, too, but let's get this party started. Please post conversion pictures here, with notes and coments. Thanks

M'll

[CMcG]

This is very timely for me. A buddy of mine has a tweed jacket he's thinking about converting to be a kilt jacket and normally I'm his kilt guru. I've never had a jacket converted, however, so hopefully I'll be able to glean enough to help him. I have a general idea from having read threads before, but there were a few nice nitty gritty details in the OP that I had really considered...

[MNlad]

I'm game. I was fortunate enough to find a mid-60s tweed sport coat, double-vent, that had the pockets raked and the two front buttons high enough to allow me to retain both them in the conversion.

The candidate:


I'm not a big fan of severely cut-away jackets, so I gave it a gentile sweep, but was still able to eliminate about six inches of length. Added were antler buttons, button holes, and epaulettes.



And the finished product. The vest has since been shortened.



Sorry about the snow.

[jhockin]

Sorry about the snow.

The snow is apt, with Maple Leaf, Canada's national tartan - just ask anyone living in Calgary. They got quiet a dump yesterday

[DyerStraits]

I'm game. I was fortunate enough to find a mid-60s tweed sport coat, double-vent, that had the pockets raked and the two front buttons high enough to allow me to retain both them in the conversion.

The candidate:


I'm not a big fan of severely cut-away jackets, so I gave it a gentile sweep, but was still able to eliminate about six inches of length. Added were antler buttons, button holes, and epaulettes.



And the finished product. The vest has since been shortened.



Sorry about the snow.

That is easily the finest conversion I have yet to see. I looks simply fantastic. Well Done!

[CMcG]

...

I'm not a big fan of severely cut-away jackets, so I gave it a gentile sweep, but was still able to eliminate about six inches of length.

...

Well done there MNlad. I think you may be onto something with the more gentle sporran cutaway and judicious removal of length. Your conversion looks less... conversion-like!

[DyerStraits]

Well done there MNlad. I think you may be onto something with the more gentle sporran cutaway and judicious removal of length. Your conversion looks less... conversion-like!

EXACTLY! It has a very natural, un-truncated look that most conversions unfortunately have, and the additional details--shoulder straps and pocket buttons (even on the ticket pocket!)--make for a very un-converted look. If I didn't know any better, I would essentially assume it was completely bespoke. It's a truly outstanding work of highly talented alteration tailoring.

[KentuckyCeltophile]

Well done there MNlad. I think you may be onto something with the more gentle sporran cutaway and judicious removal of length. Your conversion looks less... conversion-like!

As part of this thread, it would be helpful to me to see a jacket that looks "conversion -like". I would love to have a kilt jacket, but at the moment don't want to shell out loads of coin for a nice tweed or Braemar. A conversion seems like a good idea, but I'm afraid it will not look right.
Cheers.

[English Bloke]

This is my converted pin-stripe suit jacket.




Pocket flaps tucked in... Tissshk... lack of attention to detail.

The jacket was originally part of a suit I used to wear regularly for work to the point the trousers expired. The jacket however was fine so to give it a new lease of life, it was adjusted by my nimble fingered Mother-in-Law who is a retired seamstress. She used another pukka kilt jacket as a guide and with a bit of tailor's chalk, roughed out the sweep of the off-cut. She took about 2.5" (6 and a bit cm) of the bottom then re-sewed in the hem and lining. Amazingly, I took her only an hour or two. I am fortunate. It would have been beyond my capability


It's one of my favourite jackets now and gets fairly regular use.


Along with the Kilt, it often draws attention and I'm frequently complimented on it.

By the way, MML. I've sent you a PM

[Taskr]

I've been eyeing a couple of tweeds in Value Village for a conversion. M'll post on what to look for will be very helpful. MNlad - I can only hope to find as good and do as well.