Seeking advice for my first kilt

[Moses]

I'm sure this has been done before but please share any advice. Also it would help too if anyone could point me to any previous threads like this.

I have never actually worn a kilt other than to try a couple on, I have a big waist so it's hard to just come across a kilt that fits, but still I think an 8 yard (probably 9 in my case) kilt will be first. I am considering a jacket and vest too since I have nothing but that's for another time.

I am planning on a tartan kilt but my biggest questions are about the weight and sewing.

I am trying to figure out some of the differences between a 13oz and 16oz wool. I have a big belly to consider and read the heavier weight was maybe better for that. However, because of my extra weight the warmth is a concern - I don't want to be discouraged from wearing it by getting too hot.

What I'm more interested in -
Is there is a visual difference between the two weights? can you easily see a difference? does one look better than the other?
Can one commonly see the difference between 100% hand sewn, machine, or a machine & hand sown kilt?

I'm suppose most will say a 16oz 100% hand sewn is best but I am trying to figure out the differences. I am saving up so the price will not be a deal breaker but how quickly I can get it would be a consideration.

Again, any advice would be welcome

[The Wizard of BC]

Hi Moses,

OK, let me dive in here and try to help.

First - The visual differences between 13 and 16 oz fabric is very little. The biggest difference will be in the cost.

Second - don't let weight of fabric be a concern if you are thinking about sweating. A kilt is open at the bottom and is quite cool once you start walking. Where you will feel sweat is in the back of the kilt against your kidneys.

A well made machine sewn kilt can rival a hand-sewn one for looks but notice I said well made.

Who makes your kilt and how they make it count for more than anything else.

Ask your kilt maker about stabilizer and interfacings. Ask about depth of deep and reverse pleats. If possible take a look at examples of your kiltmaker's work. If you see any stairstepping of the Tartan pattern in the back of the kilt walk away. If you grab the two top buckles and pull can you see any movement between them. There should be no stretch or give in the back of the kilt. None at all.
Then look for stitching. In a hand sewn kilt you should not see a single stitch on the outside of the kilt. Not a one. This is the whole reason for hand stitching.

A machine sewn kilt will show the lines of stitching. But that should be the only difference in how the kilt is made. A machine stitched kilt is actually stronger but must still have the stabilizer and interfacings.

Then fold the kilt in half and look at the back. You should see a prominant taper from the hips up to the center of the top strap and buckle. Above that the kilt should flare back out to allow it to fit up over the ribs.

If you are looking at a kilt made by a traditional kiltmaker the kilt must be worn up at the natural waist. This is one of the parts of the definition of a traditional kilt. If you try to wear it any lower than your natural waist you will get a large pucker in the front apron. You will also have the bottom of the Fell, (The part in the back that is sewn down and tapered) falling below the crest of your hips and butt. This will after a while cause the kilt to develop a shower curtain like effect to the pleats in the back.

If you wish to wear your kilt below your belly insure that you kiltmaker knows how to make a kilt to be worn there. 99% don't. You will also find that the shorter kilt jackets do not look very good with a kilt worn lower. You will have lots of shirt showing above the kilt and below the vest or jacket.

I hope you are getting the hint here that I am not really addressing the points you are asking about. You are asking good questions but your first questions should be about how well the kilt is made not the weight of the fabric it is made from.
Buying the best kilt you can afford from the best kiltmaker you can find is the single most important thing.

I know and understand that the cost of good kilt fabric is pretty high. But a truly well made kilt should not be outrageous. Ask your kiltmaker what their labor cost is. The average of those kiltmakers who advertise here is between $350 and $425 to sew your kilt. (This is for a premium quality custom made kilt) Then the rest is the fabric. 4 yards of 16oz wool will be somewhere around $350 to $400. 4 yards of 13oz wool about $100 less.
If you find someone asking for more than this be sure to get a good answer why.

If you find someone asking for less also get a good answer to why. You will probably find that less expensive kilts will use less fabric or the kiltmaker will cut corners to cut down on labor costs.

Of course, if you are looking for an off-the-rack kilt or one from the big web based sellers of someone else's product please disregard everything I have just said. All bets are off then.

[MacLowlife]

Hi Moses,

It is possible to acquire samples of fabric in the two weights, but a 5X7 inch swatch will probably look and feel the same in 13 and 16 ounce wool. Technically, the 16 ounce weighs about a third more, but a third of not very much is, well, not very much. The weight designation refers to the weight of a YARD of fabric, by the way.

You have not mentioned financial concerns, if you have any. On the one hand, almost everything you have heard about quality goes double for kilts- paying more up front means less heartache later, unless you have a moth problem. But on the other hand, many of us can't afford to shell out the big bucks- We drive adequate, but unimpressive cars. We wear decent, but modest shoes. We recognize that our means have limits. If you do have limited means, you can do the Traditional thing and save for a long time, or you can buy something used. Or you can buy something of lesser quality and see. A crappy kilt worn once a year is still a crappy kilt, but it is not the end of the world. A lovely, perfect kilt worn once a year still leaves you needing some clothes for 364 days. But you may find yourself wearing it more and more.

I am sure other people will give you more good advice. Mine is to keep at your present task- learn as much as you can.

welcome to this group.

m'll

[Moses]

Thanks to the Wizard for all the info...some of those points I have been able to glean for what I've read here but I guess I was surprised that a machine sewn would be stronger and that on a well made hand stitched kilt you shouldn't actually see the stitching - exactly the type of thing I was wondering

[Moses]

Thanks MacLowlife for both your insight and welcome,

I have been saving up for a while...but it's really good to know that everybody who buy/wear kilts also know the costs

At first I thought I would get a PV, then as I saved more it seemed the cost for a Casual wool was attainable but now I've read so much about how rewarding it is to get the "traditionally" full size kilt that I will be able to afford that soon

now I need to figure out the kiltmaker - thinking too of the jacket, vest, etc...

[JohntheBiker]

Making the decision to buy a well-made first kilt shows great wisdom. Even if you never buy another, you will always have a good kilt - for decades! The only risk is a significant change in body. Even that is not fatal because a good kilt can often be retailored, within reason. Next big decision is to find a good kilt maker who can walk you through all of the other questions.

This site is a great source of research with lots of knowledge (and opinions).

[MacEanruig]

I am certainly no expert, but I will agree on the quality of a great kilt. I purchased my only kilt over two decades ago with the assistance of a kilt-wearing friend. We followed the measuring advice listed in the late J. Charles Thompson's book, So You're Going To Wear The Kilt.

I lived in Korea at the time, so I ordered it through my friend from a shop in the United States. If I recall, the kilt took like close to six months to arrive from Scotland. It was over $300 (1989 dollars). It seemed really expensive at the time, but there were not a lot of options open for me. Since then, I have worn it with pride at many different events. It still looks the same as when I bought it, but then I may be slightly prejudiced.

My only problem now is struggling to stay fit in order to keep wearing it, which I still do. I have always treated it with reverence.

[Moses]

I think that when you consider having something for 25 years it makes $300 actually cheap. Its a big reason I've been saving, but the wait is coming to a close soon!

thanks MacEanruig

[Taskr]

Nor am I an expert, yet I do think the responses thus far are considered and fair. My brother wears one of Wizard's kilts, which looks fabulous, so I was particularly interested in his knowledgable post - not that the others are not.
Back in the day one bit of advice I would give our junior officers, as was told to me, was that if nothing else their wardrobe had to have the very best classic cut blue blazer their budget could afford. Now and then one of those gentlemen from the past will tell me that advice had paid off in making the correct impression at a critical point - sometimes while proudly sporting that purchase of years ago still looking sharp.
I heeded my own advice acquiring my kilt. I spent a few hours with the kilt maker and learned a lot while discussing weights and styles and methods and even daily wear.(don't "need it al"l right away) It is 16oz and is heavy, until worn when that weight around natural waist literally disappears. Overly warm is not an issue. My spouse, a supporter of quality over quantity, tells me the kilt looks amazing swing of the pleats is marvellous. It is hand stitched, and it takes a search to notice any of them. But it is solidly constructed without concern for deconstructing itself. I also think that the hand stitching, should it ever need altering as John mentioned, will be less disruptive than the heavy compression of machine sewn -in my opinion.
I considerrd things like PC and argyle while making the decision but decided to seperate those expenses. Kilt first, jacket some other time (decisions to be made there too). I have lots in my current wardrobe that wears well with my kilt. The rest will come in time with the same quality/bugget guidance.
My kilt was not inexpensive, but is fabulous.

[bonnie heather]

Very well said, Steve.
I would just add that if a kiltmaker charges less for labor for a handsewn traditional kilt than you stated, it might be for a different reason than that they cut corners in their work. For me, I had been timid about asking a lot because I wasn't aware that the usual going rate is much higher. I never, ever cut corners and put great care and attention to detail into each handsewn kilt I make.

Hi Moses,

OK, let me dive in here and try to help.

First - The visual differences between 13 and 16 oz fabric is very little. The biggest difference will be in the cost.

Second - don't let weight of fabric be a concern if you are thinking about sweating. A kilt is open at the bottom and is quite cool once you start walking. Where you will feel sweat is in the back of the kilt against your kidneys.

A well made machine sewn kilt can rival a hand-sewn one for looks but notice I said well made.

Who makes your kilt and how they make it count for more than anything else.

Ask your kilt maker about stabilizer and interfacings. Ask about depth of deep and reverse pleats. If possible take a look at examples of your kiltmaker's work. If you see any stairstepping of the Tartan pattern in the back of the kilt walk away. If you grab the two top buckles and pull can you see any movement between them. There should be no stretch or give in the back of the kilt. None at all.
Then look for stitching. In a hand sewn kilt you should not see a single stitch on the outside of the kilt. Not a one. This is the whole reason for hand stitching.

A machine sewn kilt will show the lines of stitching. But that should be the only difference in how the kilt is made. A machine stitched kilt is actually stronger but must still have the stabilizer and interfacings.

Then fold the kilt in half and look at the back. You should see a prominant taper from the hips up to the center of the top strap and buckle. Above that the kilt should flare back out to allow it to fit up over the ribs.

If you are looking at a kilt made by a traditional kiltmaker the kilt must be worn up at the natural waist. This is one of the parts of the definition of a traditional kilt. If you try to wear it any lower than your natural waist you will get a large pucker in the front apron. You will also have the bottom of the Fell, (The part in the back that is sewn down and tapered) falling below the crest of your hips and butt. This will after a while cause the kilt to develop a shower curtain like effect to the pleats in the back.

If you wish to wear your kilt below your belly insure that you kiltmaker knows how to make a kilt to be worn there. 99% don't. You will also find that the shorter kilt jackets do not look very good with a kilt worn lower. You will have lots of shirt showing above the kilt and below the vest or jacket.

I hope you are getting the hint here that I am not really addressing the points you are asking about. You are asking good questions but your first questions should be about how well the kilt is made not the weight of the fabric it is made from.
Buying the best kilt you can afford from the best kiltmaker you can find is the single most important thing.

I know and understand that the cost of good kilt fabric is pretty high. But a truly well made kilt should not be outrageous. Ask your kiltmaker what their labor cost is. The average of those kiltmakers who advertise here is between $350 and $425 to sew your kilt. (This is for a premium quality custom made kilt) Then the rest is the fabric. 4 yards of 16oz wool will be somewhere around $350 to $400. 4 yards of 13oz wool about $100 less.
If you find someone asking for more than this be sure to get a good answer why.

If you find someone asking for less also get a good answer to why. You will probably find that less expensive kilts will use less fabric or the kiltmaker will cut corners to cut down on labor costs.

Of course, if you are looking for an off-the-rack kilt or one from the big web based sellers of someone else's product please disregard everything I have just said. All bets are off then.