Odd MacKenzie (?) Pleating

[WillowEstate]

Hi, a good friend passed on this very small image, from the web, of the pleats on a kilt that looks like it might be Mackenzie. He passed it on because we've discussed my Mackenzie kilts (I hope to get him in a kilt one day but he's proving a bit recalcitrant! But that's a different story.).

Pleating.jpg

Sorry the image is a tad small. The pleating is odd, to the red line and part of the block, not a style I've seen before. I have the opposite on one kilt, pleated to the white line and part of the block with the red lines hidden.

The question for the kiltmakers among us is: Given the distance between the red lines, as you see from the horizontal lines, wouldn't this make the pleats excessively deep to reduce the distance between the red lines (about 15" on my kilt) to what appears to be a separation of about 4" on the pleats? We are intrigued - how would this be achieved?

Note to Mods: This is not my photograph, I do not know its origin or who owns the copyright, which the forum is always very careful to attribute. If posting is inappropriate, please delete the post, with my apologies.

[Norbo]

It may have been a made for the owner kilt and thast how he wanted it . I have seen some pleated to the like kilts and I hate them as its a white line and the back is a sea of while lines but the same set pleated different looks ace . there is a well know tartan I love as its black and red but if pleated to the line you loos all the black round the back and its not as nice in my opinion . so may be this was the case with this kilt . He just decided to do it a little different and liked it this way .

[Pleater]

I think that the red lines are on alternate pleats, so each sett is made into two pleats. If you look at the while line lowest on the kilt you can probably make out the 'blank' pleats more easily. I think that the kilt is too large for the wearer, by the way.

I have seen large setts made up so there are alternating red and yellow lines, and when faced with a small sett I did something similar to get one and a half setts into each pleat. With this kilt there isn't an easy division so the maker has done what is probably the best for such a huge set.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[OC Richard]

Military MacKenzie kilts, as you probably know, are pleated to the white line, which occurs twice as often as the red lines. Pleat to the red line and you're in trouble, because they only occur in every other block, so the maker above alternated them to solve the issue.

Hunting Stewart military kilts alternate their pleats between the yellow and red lines as Anne mentions for that same reason: each occurs only in every other block.

[WillowEstate]

I think that the red lines are on alternate pleats, so each sett is made into two pleats. If you look at the while line lowest on the kilt you can probably make out the 'blank' pleats more easily. I think that the kilt is too large for the wearer, by the way.

I have seen large setts made up so there are alternating red and yellow lines, and when faced with a small sett I did something similar to get one and a half setts into each pleat. With this kilt there isn't an easy division so the maker has done what is probably the best for such a huge set.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

Oh well spotted Anne, thank you very much! Now you point it out, it's so obvious.

I have a Mackenzie Seaforth Military kilt and because I'm slim (thin?) waisted, the kilt maker who altered it to fit properly centered the front apron on a red line - there are no other vertical red lines on the front apron - the sett is enormous!

As Richard noted, the pleats (knife) are to the white line (on a military, the white lines are broader than on a modern sett) so, as Norbo noted, the back appears almost white when standing still, with a nice dark flash when walking briskly.

[plaid preacher]

@WillowEstate ... and is it just the photo, or are the pleats fairly wide, or is it just an illusion?

[MacGumerait]

I think that the kilt is too large for the wearer, by the way.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

I would certainly agree .

[WillowEstate]

@WillowEstate ... and is it just the photo, or are the pleats fairly wide, or is it just an illusion?

I think the short answer is yes, but I've done a bit more analysis.

First off, the picture is what it is, so anything is a bit of a guess. But I've done some "pixel
counting", primarily along the rightmost vertical red stripe, which is, well, the most vertical! The hard bit is guessing the length of the kilt - how far, if any, does the waist extend above the belt?

No way to know. Long story short, I guessed at 24-25 inches, which would make the red sett about 12 inches and the white grid about 6 inches. Going then to the top horizontal red line in the fell (stitched and so probably fixed) that gives about 2.4 inches red vertical to red vertical, which, as Anne noted, is two pleats, so the visible pleat would be about 1.2 inches.

I compared this with my Mackenzies, the Military Mackenzie Seaforth is pleated to the white line, one pleat each white line, giving a visible pleat of 0.5 inches. But the red sett size on this kilt is 15 inches, so it isn't really comparable.

My budget PV Mackenzie Modern has a smaller red sett, 12 inches, pretty much the same as the one in the picture, if my pixel counting is right. It is also pleated in the line plus block style but to the white line, which is 6 inches line to line. The height to width ratio of the resulting white grid looks very similar to the picture kilt. The distance between the vertical white lines at the fell is 2.5 inches, again very similar BUT this is for 4 pleats, not 2, so the pleat edges are White-Dark-Dark-Dark-White-etc, with a visible pleat of 0.5 inches, the same as my Military and less than half the one in the picture, again subject to my pixel counts.

I don't know if you'd agree with this argument, if you want the pixel counts, I can PM them but they are somewhat less than precise, due to the quality and size of the original image. But thanks for the question, at least it got the "little grey cells" working!