New Uniform

[A Lenape Scot]

Hello rabble,

Its been a while since I have posted here due to being so busy between joining a pipe band and being a park ranger. I play the pipes for them too when needed.

I was accepted into the Fort Smith Fire Department Pipes and Drums Corps in January and finally received all my uniform items today. I have been wearing kilts since I was 20 but nothing like this. I feel that I am not wearing it correctly. The belt feels like it may not be in the correct place and I have to blouse the back of the doublet over the belt to get it to settle into the belt hooks. Is it too loose? If so can it be altered? Also, where should the belt sit? Above the doublet or below it? I also do not know the correct height to wear the sporran with this doublet either. It is certainly not my favorite thing to put up a picture of my self to be judged but the folks on here seem helpful rather than judgmental and I want to look good on parade. I am posting one picture of me with the pipes as well in case I need to change my posture. Any advice you can give will be appreciated.

[Father Bill]

I'm not the expert to tell you the details - others here will do that, but as a general comment, you look first rate! Congratulations!

[OC Richard]

Looks like everything is proper to me!

The way the doublet fits, the position of the waistbelt, the position of the sporran all look military.

You'll hear people (Americans mostly) say that the bottom of the horsehair should be in line with the bottom of the kilt, but this has never been the case in the actual Scottish regiments. In fact the hair can go well below the bottom edge of the kilt, and usually goes a bit below.

What I will point out is that the wearing of diced hosetops, and flashes, varies from battalion to battalion. Most have three diamonds showing at the front centerline of the leg. Americans nearly always have their diced hosetops pulled far too high.

With the flashes, how they're worn varies from battalion to battalion. The Black Watch and the Argylls wore plain flashes (no loops) with the leading edge of the front flash coming to the front centerline of the leg, exactly in line with the centerline as defined by the diamonds of the diced hose.

Here are perhaps two of the smartest soldiers in a battalion, the Pipe Major and Drum Major. You'll note three diamonds showing at the front centerline, which is also where the front edge of the flashes come to.



With your hosetops, which appear to be black and green diced, you would have three diamonds centred going either black/green/black, or green/black/green. The cuffs should be carefully folded over to keep the dicing pattern neat and even.

The Gordons and Seaforths wore their flashes (which had loops) a bit further back, about at the 10 o'clock 2 o'clock positions. Americans often put them at the 9 o'clock/3 o'clock positions which looks odd.

So, both with flashes and the diced hosetops you'll have to see exactly how your unit wears them.

In the military, those doublets were worn with a white leather belt with a spoon-and-wreath brass buckle by most of the battalion. Pipers wore a wide black leather belt with large rectangular buckle, and a matching crossbelt with its hardware. Both waistbelt and crossbelt were pretty much always worn together on the Full Dress doublet as well as the khaki Service Dress tunic. Only with Battledress would one see the waistbelt worn without crossbelt.

Shells were (and still are) worn as a matching pair.



The above photo shows them in the correct orientation if seen from the front of the doublet.

Beware! You'll see Pakistani-made shells where they don't understand how they work (as an asymmetrical pair). They sometimes make the bars splay out (instead of being parallel). Here's a photo of the ugly mutant Pakistani shells



Looks like you're wearing two right-shoulder shells rather than a matching pair.

Anyhow don't worry you're wearing everything right! Richard

[A Lenape Scot]

Looks like everything is proper to me!

The way the doublet fits, the position of the waistbelt, the position of the sporran all look military.

You'll hear people (Americans mostly) say that the bottom of the horsehair should be in line with the bottom of the kilt, but this has never been the case in the actual Scottish regiments. In fact the hair can go well below the bottom edge of the kilt, and usually goes a bit below.

What I will point out is that the wearing of diced hosetops, and flashes, varies from battalion to battalion. Most have three diamonds showing at the front centerline of the leg. Americans nearly always have their diced hosetops pulled far too high.

With the flashes, how they're worn varies from battalion to battalion. The Black Watch and the Argylls wore plain flashes (no loops) with the leading edge of the front flash coming to the front centerline of the leg, exactly in line with the centerline as defined by the diamonds of the diced hose.

Here are perhaps two of the smartest soldiers in a battalion, the Pipe Major and Drum Major. You'll note three diamonds showing at the front centerline, which is also where the front edge of the flashes come to.



With your hosetops, which appear to be black and green diced, you would have three diamonds centred going either black/green/black, or green/black/green. The cuffs should be carefully folded over to keep the dicing pattern neat and even.

The Gordons and Seaforths wore their flashes (which had loops) a bit further back, about at the 10 o'clock 2 o'clock positions. Americans often put them at the 9 o'clock/3 o'clock positions which looks odd.

So, both with flashes and the diced hosetops you'll have to see exactly how your unit wears them.

In the military, those doublets were worn with a white leather belt with a spoon-and-wreath brass buckle by most of the battalion. Pipers wore a wide black leather belt with large rectangular buckle, and a matching crossbelt with its hardware. One wouldn't see, as I recall, it being worn like you have there, a piper's waistbelt with no crossbelt (such was worn with the Service Dress khaki tunic, but not the Full Dress doublet).

The shells you have were worn only by musicians (including pipers). Shells were in a matching pair. It looks like yours are both the same perhaps?

Anyhow don't worry you're wearing everything right! Richard

Right now this uniform is as far as the pipe major has set us up with . He says he plans on getting the pipers plaid too. Should I tell him about the cross belt?

[OC Richard]

Well, they say what's been seen can't be unseen, and I've seen thousands of photographs of military pipers, so I'm used to seeing the various modes, and what is worn when. Doesn't mean that that's the only way to do things, only that it's the traditional way to do things.

So for a piper there's Full Dress, which has doublet, waistbelt, crossbelt, plaid



Service Dress has the SD khaki serge tunic, and lacks the plaid, but otherwise is like Full Dress



For some reason the crossbelt was rarely worn with the Battledress jacket, even if the Full Dress waistbelt, sporran, etc were worn



I may as well put myself up for critique as well, here's the same Black Watch Service Dress as in the vintage photo above, but with the khaki drill warm weather tunic. My waistbelt is too low, it's on the support hooks, the problem being that the jacket is too long (need to get a shorter one)



Oh, there's another thing that American pipe bands do that I don't recall seeing in the British military, and that's wearing a hackle in a Glengarry. Piper's Glengarries have nothing, or a blackcock's tail, or an eagle's feather, depending on battalion. Hackles are worn on the TOS.

You see a Gordon piper above with the blackcock tail, below is the pipe band of The Highlanders with their eagle feathers



TOS with hackles

[Tarheel]

I think the kit looks great with everything "by manual" compared to the other photos available. The fly plaid and cross belt are worthy of discussion with the Pipe major. Your do live in Arkansas where the weather is a factor. I think you'll be a proud addition to the unit and park when you get it all together.

[Jack Daw]

I don't need to add anything, as OCR has it all covered.

My only question is, is there no piper's plaid? Is it the choice of the pipe band to go without because of the climate?

[Stitchwiz]

As I looked through all the photos, thank you Richard, I noticed a lot of minor things which I had never paid attention to before. Some men looked like they had just tossed everything on in a hurry - they looked ok, but not sharp.

I have only one suggestion. GOOD MIRRORS - Invest in a full-length 3 sided mirror which sits on the floor or sits just above the floor. Put another mirror behind where you will stand, so you can see also the back without twisting or turning.

When you put on your hose, make sure that the hose both sit at the same height from the floor, are level and are on straight with the diamonds centred perfectly. Or if you have hose with a decorative detail running up the back of your calf, make sure that it is centred and straight. Remember the old silk stockings that our mothers wore with the seam up the back? ...

Check the flashes to make sure that they are exactly where they are supposed to be.

The only way to check is with a mirror - bending over to look will not give you the same view that the rest of the world has.

A kilt needs to be centred on your body so that the centre of the apron is lined up with your belly button (as long as it is centred, too ).

A kilt hem needs to sit level to the floor. It is very easy to check with the mirror behind you. The same with the belt if you are wearing one.

The sporran will also be centred. Easier to do if the kilt is centred - but if the kilt is off, then the sporran probably will be too.

Whatever your individual style, it needs to look deliberate and be consistent.

Having the mirror in front of you will mean that you can make those tiny adjustments which will take you from being just reasonably well dressed to being a stylish dresser. Be the best that you can be.

When someone puts on the most masculine garment known to man, he needs to look sharp all the way around.

Hey guys, you are amazing and confident; and we ladies want to appreciate you looking your best.

Another advantage will be the ease with which you can take photos to show us your latest acquisition. We've seen a few great mirror shots on the forum!

PS - I will warn you, though, every woman in the household will want to check herself out before she leaves the house - those mirrors are going to get lots of use. So, please, have a system in place so that your daughters don't coming bouncing in to use your mirrors just when you are starting to get dressed.

[A Lenape Scot]

I don't need to add anything, as OCR has it all covered.

My only question is, is there no piper's plaid? Is it the choice of the pipe band to go without because of the climate?

doublets are new for the band. I spoke with the pipe major today and he has ordered one pipers plaid and a sword baldric to see if we will go with it or not. I think it is about the money right now since most of the pipers are firemen with limited funds and most cannot buy their own and depend on donations and memberships. I know we will not be able to wear the doublet let alone the plaid when it is 100 degrees and 90% humidity. We will go back to the uniform shirts for that. Fall and winter should be fine though.

[A Lenape Scot]

Looks like everything is proper to me!

The way the doublet fits, the position of the waistbelt, the position of the sporran all look military.

You'll hear people (Americans mostly) say that the bottom of the horsehair should be in line with the bottom of the kilt, but this has never been the case in the actual Scottish regiments. In fact the hair can go well below the bottom edge of the kilt, and usually goes a bit below.

What I will point out is that the wearing of diced hosetops, and flashes, varies from battalion to battalion. Most have three diamonds showing at the front centerline of the leg. Americans nearly always have their diced hosetops pulled far too high.

With the flashes, how they're worn varies from battalion to battalion. The Black Watch and the Argylls wore plain flashes (no loops) with the leading edge of the front flash coming to the front centerline of the leg, exactly in line with the centerline as defined by the diamonds of the diced hose.

Here are perhaps two of the smartest soldiers in a battalion, the Pipe Major and Drum Major. You'll note three diamonds showing at the front centerline, which is also where the front edge of the flashes come to.



With your hosetops, which appear to be black and green diced, you would have three diamonds centred going either black/green/black, or green/black/green. The cuffs should be carefully folded over to keep the dicing pattern neat and even.

The Gordons and Seaforths wore their flashes (which had loops) a bit further back, about at the 10 o'clock 2 o'clock positions. Americans often put them at the 9 o'clock/3 o'clock positions which looks odd.

So, both with flashes and the diced hosetops you'll have to see exactly how your unit wears them.

In the military, those doublets were worn with a white leather belt with a spoon-and-wreath brass buckle by most of the battalion. Pipers wore a wide black leather belt with large rectangular buckle, and a matching crossbelt with its hardware. Both waistbelt and crossbelt were pretty much always worn together on the Full Dress doublet as well as the khaki Service Dress tunic. Only with Battledress would one see the waistbelt worn without crossbelt.

Shells were (and still are) worn as a matching pair.



The above photo shows them in the correct orientation if seen from the front of the doublet.

Beware! You'll see Pakistani-made shells where they don't understand how they work (as an asymmetrical pair). They sometimes make the bars splay out (instead of being parallel). Here's a photo of the ugly mutant Pakistani shells



Looks like you're wearing two right-shoulder shells rather than a matching pair.

Anyhow don't worry you're wearing everything right! Richard

It turns out that he ordered 10 of our doublets at once and the company mixed up the shells. Now I have a matched pair and my pipe major thanks you for catching that. He also said we might be getting the plaid and cross belt. He ordered one set to see how it goes.