Etymology of my Surname

[Hexdef101]

I would like the opinion of any Welsh speakers as to the actual meaning of my surname, which is Siddon. I have read that it is derived from welsh but for the life of me I cannot figure out what the original might have been. Here is what I do know. While many sites list the name as originating in the South of Lancashire I also know that at one time both Lancashire and Wales were much closer border wise. I also know that Many Siddon's seem to have some kind of connection to Wales in one form or another. So I am mainly looking for another bit of information that points to Welsh Origin for my Fathers Family.

I know that in the late 1600's the name was spelled Syddon.

I know that an earlie spelling (guessed) is mimicked in the words Sydd Yn (which means something along the lines of "to be"

I know the word Tyddyn in modern welsh can mean a farm or small house.


Also William Siddons husband of Sarah Siddons (no direct relation in any way) was born in Walsall which is derived from Walh halh which translates as Valley of the Welsh Speakers

I also have read that the name is derived from a farm or farming in some way.

The question is Am I on the right path here or is this just a will o the wisp I am chasing.

For the record I have just found reference to a probable ancestor of mine who was a Pennsylvania Quaker who married a Welsh Quaker so I already know of a welsh connection


Oh and the Pronunciation i use and have heard sounds like Sidd~n where the second syllable either has a small u sound like dun or more closer to d~n where the vowel isn't said but implied. Not really sure that helps any as Dd sounds like TH not like D .

[Hexdef101]

update: I just found the words in the Dictionary of the Welsh Language on Google Books

Syddu : to exist,to abide, to dwell
Syddyn: habitation, tenement

Syddynawl: Tenementary of a Farm
Syddynaid: Holding a Tenement
Syddynu: to take up a settled abode: to hold a tenement
Syddynwr: Fixed inhabitant, a husbandman, a farmer


Well I guess I just found my answer, Though could someone help with the pronunciation of the original which i think might sound like SuThun or SiThin

[davidlpope]

The surname mapper linked below is a handy tool. It shows where the greatest concentrations of a particular surname were located in 1881. Since there wasn't a large amount of movement of people before that period, it is a good approximation of the areas in which the surname originated. I'm guessing English, not Welsh.

http://gbnames.publicprofiler.org/Ma...y=GB&type=name

[Hexdef101]

I've seen that as well. That said I do know that the syddon spelling was in use as of 1701 in Gwynnedd Pennsylvania. I think the family left Wales a long time ago. I can guarantee that my family left the UK in the 1600's

[ctbuchanan]

I found this: Siddon: This interesting surname with variant spellings Syddon, Sidden, Siddon etc., is of either English habitational or topographical origin. As no evidence can be found of a place called "Siddons" on maps today, it may be assumed that "Siddons" is one of the estimated seven to ten thousand villages and hamlets that have "disappeared", as a result of the dispersal of former inhabitants to make way for sheep pastures at the height of the wool trade in the 14th Century. The placename itself was probably composed of the old English elements "sid", broad, wide and "dun", hill. The name may also be a topographical name, describing "one who lived by a broad hill", from the same old English elements. In 1603 one William Syddon married Faith Burridge at St. James' church, Clerkenwell, London, while in 1621 one William Siddon was christened at St. Olaves, Silver Street, London. Sarah Siddons (1755 - 1831) was one of the foremost Shakespearean actresses of her time and her statue by Chantrey is in Westminster Abbey. Her son Henry (1774 - 1815) received encouragement from Sir Walter Scott and produced creditable plays. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Richard Sidon, (marriage to Jone Aldrige), which was dated April 3rd 1564 at Burnham, Buckinghamshire, during the reign of Queen Elizabeth 1st, known as "Good Queen Bess", 1558 - 1603.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/siddon#ixzz43eFy4tO2

[Hexdef101]

because this has turned into a discussion of whether or not my name is siddon(syddon,syddyn) or Siddon (sidon,seddon) I must provide you with my counter-argument. Sorry if there are grammatical errors (in the US we haven't really spoken English in years). First from the site forebears (terrible, I certainly hope this is a pun) under the title
Siddons surname meaning & statistics we have the entry

Definition:

(Welsh.) From syddyn, a farm—a farmer.

http://forebears.co.uk/surnames/siddons

on google books we have a book titled, An etymological Dictionary of Family and Christian Names by William Arthur 1857
stating the same as the site above.
https://books.google.com/books?id=rV...syddyn&f=false

Also a list of welsh surnames listing same, located at ExpertGenealogy [
http://expertgenealogy.com/surnames.asp?s=Welsh
and AmericanLastnames listing same again http://www.americanlastnames.us/last...lsh/S/S-0.html

Whom should I believe, William Arthur, MA ,and several sites giving that same definition, All for free I might add.

Or the site you gave me.

Originally when I posted this thread I wasn't sure in fact that I had made the right conclusion as I had seen both versions of the story, and because I wanted to learn the opinions of actual welsh speakers on the subject , and possibly glean the proper pronunciation of the original Word. As usual I continued to do my own research and found the answer for myself, at least in regards to the etymology. I still hope to glean the proper pronunciation and perhaps learn a bit about my Fathers Families (even if they probably left Wales sometime after Llywelyn ap Gruffydd's Death and Daffyd ap Gruffydd's at the hands of Edward I in 1283. So in conclusion Please understand I am absolutely more interested in truth then historical fiction’s (even if it's a fiction that only myself might engage in), That Said I have my mothers Scottish blood as well so I will most certainly continue to Argue the point ad infinitum as long as anyone desires to pursue said argument. That said I am sure that no one really wants to start a argument over the little detail of someone's ancestry, and let this one lay.


So for any welsh speakers can I please get the proper welsh pronunciation of what I am currently assuming I have proven to be the etymology of my name (short of definitive evidence to the contrary). Also anything you care to say about the history of Wales is certainly welcome.

Mechal Syddyn Ap Joseff Ab Joseff (please correct my welsh if i got the patronymic Wrong I would have added Syddyn and Gwinnedd to make it say roughly "of the farm of gwennedd but sadly i couldn't figure it out.

I added the gwinnedd as that's where my last supposed welsh ancestors lived, I've never actually been there personally.

[Steve Ashton]

The only way to know for sure is to do your genealogy. And you cannot do a genealogy via google or wikipedia.

A genealogy is a paper chase. You start with your birth certificate. That gives you the names of your 2 parents. Perhaps where they were from or where they were born or married. You then go find their marriage license or their birth certificates. That will lead you to the next piece of paper. On and on, back and back one piece of paper at a time.

Only when you have an unbroken chain of documentation do you have a genealogy. And remember if you go back even 5 generations or 120 years (That is just the beginnings of the 20th century, you have 32 grandparents. You are descended from all of them. And some may surprise you.

You seem to have settled on a Welsh origination for your last name. That is commendable. But I'm sorry you still do not have a genealogy.

[davidlpope]

Best of luck with all that.

[Hexdef101]

Absolutely Steve, and for two yrs I have done just that. While I certainly cannot say with 100% certainty at this moment, I have Traced my fathers line back to 1701 as stated. At this Point I cannot say anything is absolute, I am simply building a case. In fact I will most likely never know for certain as the one thing I do know is, My Fathers Family was never very important so its unlikely there is much evidence prior to mid 1500 or so. My guess is my last welsh ancestor was most likely simply a displaced farmer or one of the myriad welsh bowmen who went to England and simply never went back home. Considering the patronymic Naming system There simply wouldn't be an actual Siddon Family in Wales proper. The only sign left would in such a case be a chosen surname reflecting his heritage. The fact that no actual location has been found in England as an absolute origin only further points to this being the case. I am simply unconvinced by the more modern etymology stating that the name is Anglo Saxon, Not saying with absolute certainty that it isn't, because I doubt that anyone short of the creator himself can say for sure. I have reasoned Conclusions nothing more, But as I followed up with in my last post, If my guess is nothing more then a delusional fantasy, its historically irrelevant as the siddon family simply wasn't important enough for it to be anything other then my delusion.

To be honest my mothers Family were by far the more interesting bunch. and I certainly have a rich enough history on her side for one person. I Don't need for my dads family to be important, just have a basic idea of who they were. I already know my dads line basically began in 1701 with the marriage of Thomas Syddon Son of Anthony Syddon to Lowry Evans, daughter of Robert,Evan Ap Evan of Gwynedd Twp, Pennsylvania Colony. More than that I cannot say.


Also I can absolutely agree with you that Some of my family were surprising. The French Bellanger Family were certainly interesting. The Lyons (Glammis or otherwise), The Holifield's who fought at the battle of Kings Mountain, about 100 yrs after their last true Uk ancestor was transported for travelling. All of these have been well documented, I simply had to look up the information. As I said My Mothers Side is much more Interesting.