Evolution of Kilt Stocking/hose.

[CollinMacD]

As I go through reading about the evolution of Scottish Highland dress, there seems to be minimal information on the transformation for cloth/wool bag socks, into the knitted hose. In the early 17th century, illustrations seem to depict knit hose, not the bag socks. So does anybody know if wool knit socks/hose were used in the 17th century? I see it appearing more and more toward the mid, 17th century. Can anybody enlight us about the progression from the bag sock to the knit hose?

[Luke MacGillie]

Without specific examples to examine, how do you know the hose in a painting are knit rather than cut cloth?

I will try and pull up the articles I have on the various bog bodies, as I can not remember if they had cut cloth or knit hose.

I would say that knitting anything other than a solid color is quite tedious, it might even be quicker and easier to weave multicolored cloth over trying to knit something, prior to the invention of knitting machines.

[Steve Ashton]

The history of commercially and economically available knitted stockings is fascinating.

Back in the 1580's a guy named William Lee came up with an invention known today as a knitting frame. He ended up having to go to France to get funding.
After he died one of his assistants name John Ashton made an improvement and along with Huguenot silk spinners set off a new industry.

By 1663 the Worshipful Company of Framework Knitters had formed in London.

Around 1758 Jedediah Strutt came up with another improvement allowing the "Derby Rib"

By the 1780's they were able to produce reasonably priced knit cotton hose that threatened to undercut the price of hand knitters.

The power introduced with the Industrial Revolution and the new tooling capabilities led to a huge frame knitting industry around Nottingham, England.

As with other things influenced by the new industrialization there were fears that the older hand knitters would not be able to compete and a counter-culture revolution exploded.
These revolutionaries had a mythological leader called Ned Ludd and they went around smashing the knitting frames
This is where we get the term "Luddite".

There is today a Frame Knitters Museum in Nottingham, England and if you every find yourself in that area it is well worth a visit.

Long stockings have been a part of fashion for a very long time. Women wore them and men wore them under the short pants you see in all the 1600 and 1700 paintings.

So when the kilt came around I would guess that it was just natural to use what everyone was used to wearing and seeing.

[CollinMacD]

Without specific examples to examine, how do you know the hose in a painting are knit rather than cut cloth?

I will try and pull up the articles I have on the various bog bodies, as I can not remember if they had cut cloth or knit hose.

I would say that knitting anything other than a solid color is quite tedious, it might even be quicker and easier to weave multicolored cloth over trying to knit something, prior to the invention of knitting machines.

I hope this addresses your question, I really don't know for sure but do compare between illustrations and painting. Knit socks just look more form fitting, and not as bulky as the bag socks, Bag Socks fill very loosely with a lot of slack and as not as form fitting, Sure its a painting, and artist can control everything, but I have seen examples of knit socks going back to the mid 1500s. So its more of an educated guess, nothing is for sure when examining painting or illustrations, but photos are a little better, so with not photos, I just take the paint for face value.

Steve, thanks for your explanation, did not know it went back to the 1500s, I thought it would be more to the early 1600's. In Salem, Massachusetts, I believe it is the Peabody Museum, I saw socks work by a crewmember of a sailing vessel dating back to 1640's and they were knit. I have also seen real examples in other maritime museums of socks, mittens, scraves, and shirts knitted from the 1600's. Would like to know if socks were knitted at home and worn in the Highlands in the 16th and 17th century and were they patterns, checks, designs, or solids, and what colors. I would imagine colors would be of a brown, bleached white, or gray. I doubt you would find too many reds, greens or blues. Just my guess.

[figheadair]

Which pictures are you thinking about that look like knitted hose?

[Steve Ashton]

Creating shaped garments with Nalbinding, crochet, knitting and tatting goes back almost as far as we have history. Some say that these method of creating fabric pre-date the invention of the loom.

There are known examples of Nalbinding (the use of one needle in a method similar to sewing) that date back to the earliest known surviving textiles.

There were some very fine, multicolored full foot knit socks found in Egypt, dating to the 11th century, that include separate toes and heels that requires knowledge of the purl stitch. This has led most to believe that knitting pre-dates this pair of socks by quite a while. Examples of earlier work have just not survived.

Crochet, or creating loops with a single needle, has been around even longer.

I think that those who suggest that something would not be done because it is tedious may not have seen some of the magnificent examples of hand work in museums. The quality and the finesse of the work produced can be quite surprising. Humans have always taken pride in their hand work.

There are a pair of silk mitten cuffs found in a tomb dated 1275 knit in three colors at 20 stitches per inch. I have seen examples of hand knit multicolored silk stockings that date to around 1350 that rival today's opaque pantyhose.

Weaving before powered looms would perhaps be more time consuming than knitting due to the need for a loom and the amount of yarn needed to warp that loom. (For example one minimum run of single-width kilt fabric can require 25,000 yards of very fine spun yarn) But could left over pieces of woven fabric be used to make something else? Well yes, and we know it was done.

But it is very easy, technologically, to create fully shaped pieces with knitting or any of the other styles that use one yarn at a time. One of the kilt socks that I knit takes less than 400 yards of light fingering weight yarn. Anyone with no more than a bag to carry their yarn, two needles, and a spare moment can pull out their knitting and continue right where they left off. Such as a shepherd tending his flock or a nursing mother.

The Framework Knitters museum that I referenced above, (https://www.frameworkknittersmuseum.org.uk/) had for a while on loan, a pair of hand knit thigh high stockings dating from the late 1500's that are reputed to have taken one day to make. And which are reputed to have been done by a teenaged girl. There is another pair of thigh high silk stockings with open lace work and full color designs knit into them, in Germany dating from the late 1500's, that are said to have taken less than three days to make as a sampler by a 12 year old girl.

Currently the Guinness world record holder in hand, two needle, knitting can knit at the amazing speed of 188 stitches per min. That's better than three stitches per second.

The original stated goal of inventing the frame knitting machine was not to make things easier or faster but to allow less skilled people (read children as young as 11) to make the things leaving the skilled knitter the time to do other things. (Such as cook and clean)

Just because it is old, please do not discount the skill, ability, inventiveness and ingenuity of our ancestors.

[Luke MacGillie]

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This pair of hose, is purported to be from the 45. Id say for sure 18th Century, but probably not from the 45, fitted to the leg, far from "Baggy"

As to knit vs wove, there are plenty of things that go into and out of fashion over time. Knit was as far as we know it, not in fashion in the highlands till mid 19th Century. Same with tweed, or any of the various styles that go back to the dawn of time in knifemaking that had fallen out of style till the Bowie brothers brought them back into fashion.

A cultural practice can exist before and after a certain period....

[Steve Ashton]

I would disagree about the time periods for knitting in Scotland. According to what I read, knitting was well known in Scotland and the Islands in the 16th and 17th centuries. Scottish knitwear was already world famous by the beginning of the 18th century.

Fairisle is a colorwork knitting well known in the Shetlands as far back at the late 16th century.
Aran or fisherman's knits were world famous on the western islands before the 17th century.

Due to the warmth of knitted goods you will find them used anywhere the climate is cold or wet. Knitting is easily done anywhere with very little needed except yarn, needles and a free moment so is perfect for and would be a natural cottage work.

But, as knitting is usually thought of a 'woman's work' it does not show up in the history books as often.

[Luke MacGillie]

I dont disagree that knitting was going on, it just didnt happen to be used for the hose worn by Highlanders. Bonnets, caps, purses yes.

[Steve Ashton]

Well, I guess that would depend on the time frame you are referring to. By the 1790's knit hose were well known and by the 1822 Levee even knit tights such as those worn by The King were commented on.

I would just not assume that diced hose were always cut from woven fabric.