MacBean tartan pleated to the sett question

[Me cousin Jack]

this is the MacBean tartan and it is very busy to work with, how shall I pleat to the sett?

[Me cousin Jack]

Duplicate post removed

[Me cousin Jack]

Pleated to sett


This is my attempt to pleat to sett and am wondering if white lines should be placed underneath pleats or should they be placed right on the edge and sewn using white thread to the white line just underneath pleat edge?

Also as you stitch a pleat and move between color blocks am I to understand you change the color of the thread as the pleat progresses?

[Me cousin Jack]

Needless to say the splits have been a bear to work out, I’ve tried numerous numbers 1/2, 5/8,3/4...

And pleating to the stripe is just way to busy...any stripe!



Then there’s pleating to the red (or back ground) pretty red, eh?

Thoughts?

[Profane James]

This one looks cool.

[Barb T]

Hi MC Jack

As it happens, I just made a post in a different thread about the rules for pleating to the sett in a traditional knife-pleated kilt, and one of the pictures I posted is the MacBean tartan. Below, I've copied and pasted the relevant parts about choosing elements for pleating to the sett, plus added a couple pics of the MacBean pleating. Your proposed pleating violates some of the rules below. If you're not sure why, just holler, and I'm happy to help.

Traditional guidelines for pleating to the sett (as taught in The Art of Kiltmaking):

• A pivot must be centered in a pleat (or in some cases split down the middle along the edges of two pleats).
• Pleats must be a mirror image on opposite sides of the pleat containing the pivot (i.e., the elements chosen must be identical but in mirror image on opposite sides of the pleat containing the pivot).
• Pleats should be chosen so as not to lose stripes in the taper toward the waist (i.e., not make spearpoints).
• A prominent non-pivot stripe should be held along the edge of a pleat so that it is not lost in the pleat taper.
• The pleating must reproduce the tartan sett as closely as possible while still maintaining the rules above AND keeping all of the pleats the same with.

Here are a few examples of the rules above. In each case, the look is not achieved by varying the pleat width - the pleats are all the same size.

The red stripe in the kilt below is a pivot, which is centered in the pleat, and pleats are mirror images on both sides of that pleat. Ditto the double black stripe, which is the other pivot.



First example below violates the rules (losing a prominent stripe in the taper, making spearpoints); the second one does not:



And here's one with split pivots, but the pleats are still mirror images on both sides of the pair that split the pivot. And all these pleats are the same width - the pleating is not achieved by varying pleat width.



The result of meeting all these rules is that the tartan sett can rarely be reproduced exactly across the pleats at the hips (and if the pleats taper at all, of course the sett won't be reproduced exactly at the waist). This is what makes pleating a traditional kilt by traditional methods a challenge, particularly for complex tartans. Here's an example - it's close but not mathematically perfect:



And here are the pleat choices for the kilt above, in the MacBean tartan:



And up close, and personal, so that you can see where the pleats are:




And here's one (not mine) that violates all the rules that I use....



The pleating you've proposed doesn't meet the rules for symmetry. I'm happy to elaborate if the post above doesn't make sense to you. Just let me know!

[Me cousin Jack]

Hi MC Jack

As it happens, I just made a post in a different thread about the rules for pleating to the sett in a traditional knife-pleated kilt, and one of the pictures I posted is the MacBean tartan. Below, I've copied and pasted the relevant parts about choosing elements for pleating to the sett, plus added a couple pics of the MacBean pleating. Your proposed pleating violates some of the rules below. If you're not sure why, just holler, and I'm happy to help.

Traditional guidelines for pleating to the sett (as taught in The Art of Kiltmaking):

• A pivot must be centered in a pleat (or in some cases split down the middle along the edges of two pleats).
• Pleats must be a mirror image on opposite sides of the pleat containing the pivot (i.e., the elements chosen must be identical but in mirror image on opposite sides of the pleat containing the pivot).
• Pleats should be chosen so as not to lose stripes in the taper toward the waist (i.e., not make spearpoints).
• A prominent non-pivot stripe should be held along the edge of a pleat so that it is not lost in the pleat taper.
• The pleating must reproduce the tartan sett as closely as possible while still maintaining the rules above AND keeping all of the pleats the same with.

Here are a few examples of the rules above. In each case, the look is not achieved by varying the pleat width - the pleats are all the same size.

The red stripe in the kilt below is a pivot, which is centered in the pleat, and pleats are mirror images on both sides of that pleat. Ditto the double black stripe, which is the other pivot.



First example below violates the rules (losing a prominent stripe in the taper, making spearpoints); the second one does not:



And here's one with split pivots, but the pleats are still mirror images on both sides of the pair that split the pivot. And all these pleats are the same width - the pleating is not achieved by varying pleat width.



The result of meeting all these rules is that the tartan sett can rarely be reproduced exactly across the pleats at the hips (and if the pleats taper at all, of course the sett won't be reproduced exactly at the waist). This is what makes pleating a traditional kilt by traditional methods a challenge, particularly for complex tartans. Here's an example - it's close but not mathematically perfect:



And here are the pleat choices for the kilt above, in the MacBean tartan:



And up close, and personal, so that you can see where the pleats are:




And here's one (not mine) that violates all the rules that I use....



The pleating you've proposed doesn't meet the rules for symmetry. I'm happy to elaborate if the post above doesn't make sense to you. Just let me know!

Hi Barb, thank you so much, that’s exactly what I was wondering, pleating no no’s. I’ll study this and work with it...your the best, Barb, much appreciated.

[Me cousin Jack]

Barb, after a quick study, this is perfect (thank you for the close ups) the only other question I have would be thread color choice for pleating, particularly where the green bocks alternate with the red along the pleat?

[Barb T]

Two things!

• Realize that where you actually fold each pleat (i.e., what element is in each of your pleats) will be governed by how much tartan you have and how big you are, both of which govern how many pleats you actually need. The exact pleat choice in the kilt above may not work for you, and you might have to make different choices if you need larger or smaller pleats. But the principles of centering pivots, symmetry, not losing prominent stripes, and keeping the pleats the same size remain the same.
• For stitching pleats, choose the color that is in the solid color blocks along the edge of a pleat (i.e., where the warp and the weft threads are the same color) - that color will be one of the two colors in all of the other blocks along the edge of that pleat.

[Barb T]

And if have more questions, just holler!