Question about Clan Fraser Crest

[be da veva]

Aahh!!! Olde french...

[creagdhubh]

Exactly what I tend to do if any questions exist. Go to great lengths to verify info and adhere to the directions from those authorities within a given clan.

Me too.

[mayberry]

If you still need confirmation that "prest" is the archaic spelling of "prêt", meaning "ready", and that the circumflex is the sign of the missing "s", look at these two articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_...flex_in_French

http://fr.01reference.com/definition/PRET

The first explains in great detail the process whereby the change occurred in the spelling. The second article, on the etymology of "prêt", is in French, but if you scroll down to the section labelled "historique" you'll see the citations of "prest" from before the spelling change.

Incidentally, it has the same Latin root as the Italian "presto"

Cheers,
John

[BCAC]

Whoa, like 3 of my worlds colliding in this thread! (applique/ embroidered garments, high school French, clan Fraser motto)
Je parle un petit peu de francais.

****EDIT** I am wrong.
I can't imagine dropping the t on "prest". It's not a French word then, "pres". "Près" is, but that changes it from "ready" to "almost/ or close" I don't think they want their motto to be "I am Close".
**END***
All I know of the Fraser (of Lovat) clan motto is from the Outlander book series. It's always "Je Suis Prest".

It's even on some Outlander SWAG.
http://www.zazzle.com/je+suis+prest+gifts


http://www.cafepress.com/+clan_fraser_button,111469204

Hope that helps.
Yeah, you don't want to have to remove some applique. That's brutal.

To say "I am ready", in correct French, you would have to use their accents. The correct French phrase is "Je suis prêt", although without the accent it doesn't mean anything.

To say "I am close to the wall" in correct French you would say "Je suis près du mur", but there again, without the accent it means nothing.

It seems that the Fraser motto has the two words mixed up and no accents, with reference to todays French spoken and written language. This is slowly but surely changing. There are many French words that were written with the circumflex accent and now the spelling without the accent is deemed acceptable ( like boîte for box for example, which can now be spelt without the accent circumflex as in boite). It is difficult to keep up with these changes and doesn't help your problem in any way shape or form. Sorry.

Maybe the motto is written in olde French, before accents and things similar existed, in which case I can be of no help. I'm rather surprised that this is not noted anywhere within the Clan Fraser or their association. Have you contacted either the clan or their association?

Not much help here, I'm afraid.

[BCAC]

Ooops, sorry, I didn't see the other post before I posted.

It seems that YE OLDE WIKIPEDIA has the answer.

Maybe Matt is right, too, as there are other mottos which are not written in gramatically correct today's French either, like the Colquhoun's Si je puis, quoted earlier by Tobus.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

As a brief intro, some of you know I do custom embroidery work and travel to numerous games as a vendor. Have done work for a number of members of the Fraser clan and have just run encountered a new problem with a client.

Long story short, I did a custom, tartan appliqued sweatshirt for the client as a Christmas gift. Got a call on Saturday saying they loved the shirt but that we made a mistake on the order. On all previous work I have done for Fraser of Lovat the motto I have used is "Je Suis Prest" and have never had anyone raise a question.

The mistake according to this client, there should not be a "t" in Prest: should be "Je Suis Pres." Why, the rationale offered was the motto is French in origin and, as a result, the "t" should not be there. As I am not able to speak a word of French, I did a couple of searches and cannot find anything which supports this rationale.

The Fraser society sites all use the motto as I have done it in the past. My question is, is there a variation I am not aware of? Any help would be appreciated.

You are right, he is wrong. That said, some people will go to any length to avoid paying for custom work...

[Mark R]

You are right, he is wrong. That said, some people will go to any length to avoid paying for custom work...

Have reached the same conclusion in my own mind after the input from the generous friends here at XMarks.

Just so you know, when it comes to this kind of a custom order, customer's are obligated to prepay when the order is placed. We simply cant afford to be left holding the bag for personalized and custom orders as we may never get another request for the same piece.

[Mark R]

If you still need confirmation that "prest" is the archaic spelling of "prêt", meaning "ready", and that the circumflex is the sign of the missing "s", look at these two articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_...flex_in_French

http://fr.01reference.com/definition/PRET

The first explains in great detail the process whereby the change occurred in the spelling. The second article, on the etymology of "prêt", is in French, but if you scroll down to the section labelled "historique" you'll see the citations of "prest" from before the spelling change.

Incidentally, it has the same Latin root as the Italian "presto"

Cheers,
John

Thanks for your time and post, John. Well, I have to say I, myself, am convinced as to reasons for why the motto is spelled as it is. One can never tell when it comes to how and why clients think as they do sometimes.

The argument was presented to me so adamantly I was under the impression there may have been another possibility I had not known about as I have dealt with 100s of clans. Keep learning the nuances of each as we go, guess that what makes it fun as opposed to doing basic embroidery work for folks.

[Mark R]

Breaking News, LOL

Just received the following message from my customer:

"Confusing! ;-) We have decided to keep the shirt you sent. I still don't understand the T at the end of "Je suis pres" though because there is no such french word. and Je suis pres...means I am ready. Thanks for the follow up though."

My response: One of the reasons we enjoy doing the Scottish and Irish specialty work is that we are constantly learning new things all of the time. Your questioning of the spelling led to some fun research and dealing with folks which never would have happened otherwise. We used to do basic, conventional embroidery which became rather stale and boring. Since transitioning to the heraldry, we have had to learn the nuances involved with each family and clan. Challenging at times but fun as well.

Please let me know if you have any questions. Personally, I believe you have made the right choice as the motto you have on the shirt does indeed meet the guidelines expressed by your clan Chief. Hopefully you are pleased and will enjoy it for a long time.

Wishing you a blessed Christmas.
Mark

PS thanks for the diversion as I have been able to learn something new.


My thanks to everyone who contributed as the input you provided was shared with him. It, no doubt, helped influence the final decision. Great to be able to come to a site where folks are so willing to help each other. Wish I had more to offer than a heartfelt thank you.

[piperdbh]

guess that what makes it fun as opposed to doing basic embroidery work for folks.

You mean cutting away Cut-Away has lost its magic?