PC Waistcoat Options: 3 vs 5 Button

[EagleJCS]

I think wearing the 5-button vest with the PC is mirroring the trend of wearing a waistcoat instead of a cummerbund with a tuxedo.

[JSFMACLJR]

I think wearing the 5-button vest with the PC is mirroring the trend of wearing a waistcoat instead of a cummerbund with a tuxedo.

John, I almost always wear a three or four button evening waistcoat with a dinner jacket, instead of a cummerbund. I wouldn't call wearing a waistcoat with a tuxedo a "trend", unless it is one of those horrid looking waistcoats with five buttons favoured by the Hollywood set!

[MacLowlife]

The 3 button waistcoat is designed for a traditional formal/blacktie/white tie/ tuxedo shirt, which usually has a pleated or stiff or padded front. The 5 button model is copied from a standard suit vest. It hides almost all of your shirt front. Like most formal wear, the 3 button is mostly for show- many 3 button waistcoats are backless. As JSFMacLJr notes, the Hollywood types seem to have embraced the idea of a suit vest with a tuxedo. But then, they also seem to like black dress shirts, notch lapel tuxedoes, etc.

As you may have sensed, the PC is not universally praised. In truth, a Regulation doublet is easier to dress down and an Argyll/Crail can often be succesfully be dressed up. Somewhere Matt Newsome has presented a menu of doublets, with various neckwear options. Try the search feature and the excellent One Kilt Ten Looks thread...

Of course, the PC has become the default full dress/ tuxedo equivalent, especially among the rental companies. There is nothing wrong with it, but you may find it a bit limited in its use.

Congratulations on your kilt!

[EagleJCS]

John, I almost always wear a three or four button evening waistcoat with a dinner jacket, instead of a cummerbund. I wouldn't call wearing a waistcoat with a tuxedo a "trend", unless it is one of those horrid looking waistcoats with five buttons favoured by the Hollywood set!

Sandy, I only mentioned it as a 'trend' because about 30 years ago (when I started noticing such things), most formal-wear rental shops were offering cummerbunds or the low-gorge "backless" vests (vestlets?) and apparently had been for several years. Very few formal 5-button vests were seen except as costume bits for (Western) re-enactors and even three-piece suits were on the way out. Then, about 10-15 years ago when my best friend and my brother were getting married, the rental places had switched to the high-gorge 5-button vests and cummerbunds were passe'.

[OC Richard]

If we take "tradition" into account, yes, when the "coatee" or "Prince Charlie coatee" was introduced in the early 20th century it was always associated with a low-cut waistcoat, matching the jacket, or red, or tartan (here in the 1936 Anderson catalogue)



and here in a Peter Henderson catalogue from the 1920s (though the waistcoat has five buttons!)



When I first saw Kilt Hire places pairing Prince Charlies with the waistcoats from Argyll jackets it looked clumsy and out of place, apparently an ad hoc measure to allow them to only have to keep one style of waistcoat in stock.

But... I picked up a used PC on Ebay a while back, which didn't come with a waistcoat, and when I wore the PC to the Black Watch concert I had to press my ordinary waistcoat into service. I concluded it wasn't such a bad thing after all (especially as I wore a long tie, which I prefer)

[vdubguru]

Wow, thanks for all the comments and input! Glad to see the question has created such a great conversation.

I've decided to go with the "traditional" 3 button as suggested above since it will be used primarily on formal occasions, for the next year anyway. After that, I'll likely invest in a less formal Argyle or Crail option.

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting the phone call from the Kilt Maker to tell me it's ready to pickup... any time now Pictures soon!

Thanks again!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Wow, thanks for all the comments and input! Glad to see the question has created such a great conversation.

I've decided to go with the "traditional" 3 button as suggested above since it will be used primarily on formal occasions, for the next year anyway. After that, I'll likely invest in a less formal Argyle or Crail option.

I'm (not so) patiently awaiting the phone call from the Kilt Maker to tell me it's ready to pickup... any time now Pictures soon!

Thanks again!

Let me toss that cat in amongst the pigeons and suggest a slightly more useful alternative:

A black barathea Argyll jack with both a 3 button and a 5 button waistcoat.

Worn with a black bow tie and 3 button waistcoat a black barathea Argyll is every bit as dressy as a Prince Charlie coatee; when paired with a 5 button waistcoat and a regular neck tie it is the same as a dark suit worn to dinner or a concert, wedding or a funeral. In effect, you get two outfits for the price of one, plus the paltry cost of a second waistcoat.

[vdubguru]

Macmillan,
thanks for the reply. I've been tossing this idea around as well and really like this option.
Does anyone else agree? If I can get more use out of the Argyle, I sure would like to!
I've been thinking that a PC would be a bit too formal for times when I'm at a wedding or non-black-tie-event.

What say you Rabble?

[fluter]

As has been mentioned before, the black Argyll has one more trick in store; it could serve for a formal daytime event (morning dress).

Add in your best hose and shoes, perhaps a wing collar and a discreet cravat, and you'll look better than the groomsmen in their magenta cummerbunds, or whatever the bride & formal-wear shop concocted.