Wearing the kilt in Scotland

[Mel1721L]

The drunken, violent Scot is a sterotype and one I only encountered once and that was in London when I was attacked by said stereotype after ejecting him from a bar. I arrested him and he got 6 months for assaulting a police officer. There are parts of London where it is dangerous to go and I suspect the same is true in most big cities, which is why whenever I've visited Scotland, I've avoided places like Glasgow.

Scotland has a thriving tourist industry and is a beautiful country. The people I encountered have been friendly and helpful, even though I had an English accent. The same can be said of the Scots I have met and know in Spain. The most hostile thing I ever encountered in Scotland was the midge! However when I visited Scotland I was unaware of my Welsh heritage and it was long before I began wearing a Welsh cilt. If I ever visited Scotland again, which sadly I can't imagine, I would wear my Welsh cilt, I would only wear my Powell of Wales cilt though, as it is so obviously not Scottish.

Living and working in London for 20 years, American tourists were common. They do not blend in well. They can often be heard long before they can be seen and in those days wore weird plaid trousers and the ubiquitous baseball cap. Draped in cameras with wives called Martha. Americans were looked on as gullable but generally harmless but kind of likeable like a puppy. However since those days due to international politics which can't be talked about, I think they aren't looked on in quite the same manner. I hope I'm wrong and it may be different in Scotland, I'm going on what it was like in London 10 years ago now, so I may well be out of date.

[MacRobert's Reply]

I am appalled at your experience CeilidhDoc and so sorry you had that encounter with racism in Scotland. I think your analysis is sound. We had a recurrence of that kind of behaviour in the wake of the Braveheart film. The other dynamic was also experienced in England with some violent clashes in cities, including both Oxford and Cambridge, between town and gown.

On the issue of identity and the kilt: It is not unusual for Scots (ie those born and resident in Scotland -the demos) to wear the kilt at weddings, even though they are from a diversity of ethnic backgrounds. For example, Scots who are from a Pakistani ethnic background. Being born and/or resident in Scotland (a member of the demos) is sufficient justification.

On the other hand, Canadians and folks born and/or resident in the US and elsewhere will often wear the kilt with an ethnic-origins justification - they possess a Scottish surname or had Scottish ancestors.

I am personally relaxed about both justifications, not that any justification is needed, but not all Scots share my liberal views!

[CeilidhDoc]

Just to clarify, i did not post that story to make any Scot feel ashamed or the need to apologize. In the USA those same kids would likely be armed with handguns so I certainly don't think the situation is any better here. Also, the Scots of this forum have no more need to apologize for the actions of a few rough guys than anyone else would for crimes in all of our respective countries of residence.

Humans are unfortunately a violent species. It happens everywhere.


But that was just one negative drop of water in an ocean of fantastic and memorable experiences while I was in Scotland all those years ago. I cannae wait to return ;)

Slàinte

[Jock Scot]

Just to clarify, i did not post that story to make any Scot feel ashamed or the need to apologize. In the USA those same kids would likely be armed with handguns so I certainly don't think the situation is any better here. Also, the Scots of this forum have no more need to apologize for the actions of a few rough guys than anyone else would for crimes in all of our respective countries of residence.

Humans are unfortunately a violent species. It happens everywhere.


But that was just one negative drop of water in an ocean of fantastic and memorable experiences while I was in Scotland all those years ago. I cannae wait to return ;)

Slàinte

Well yes, I quite understand what you are saying CD, but this sort of dreadful behaviour of some, does reflect on Scotland as a whole in some part and whilst I am under no illusions that some members of my country, of which I am very proud, are far from angels, their behaviour does actually reflect upon us all in some part and for that, I do apologise.

[CeilidhDoc]

You are a gentleman Jock. The sentiment is appreciated.

And as a traveller with travelling friends I can briefly speak in regards to the notions of Americans being easy to pick out, not always for positive reasons. I know a number of Americans who travel with Canadian flag patches on their bags. They are Americans that would be harder to pick out abroad because they are cognizant of what not to do while travelling and the flag of Canada provided plausible deniability when travelling at times when the politics of the government of th USA has raised the ire of the world community at large.

It pays to do some research about how to not stand out too much at times.

Slàinte

[Father Bill]

Which is flattering to us in Canada, albeit a wee bit disconcerting.

[greybadger]

Any society has its hooligan problem children. Look at England - green and pleasant land (or at least the lovely bit of countryside I live in is), with a lovely local pub, dog walking on the hills with fell ponies, friends who let themselves into the house to make tea (as I do at their houses).... Pretty idillic, and I love it. However we also have football hooligans, drunkards fighting in town of a Friday night, and latent racism in the 'coming here and stealing our jobs' brigade.

Scotland is no different to any other place, anywhere else in the world. It just also happens to have some amazing mountains, lochs, coastline, castles and a wonderfully ornate history. As, indeed, do many other places - I write this looking at an Iron Age hill fort on the horizon, for example.

[CeilidhDoc]

I agree. I don't know too many Canadians that are pleased by such tactics. Personally I would not do that, but it has been done so I thought I would mention it.

Back in the 90s the giveaway for an American in Scotland was brightly colored clothing. At least in St. Andrews the fashion at the time did not allow for much in the way of bright colors. So when Americans came through town with bright shirts and neon paint lettering on them it was all too easy to know from a distance where they were from.

I have no idea if that would still be the case. I am sure fashions on both sides of the pond have changed a number of times since then.

Slàinte

[Half Scot Half Pole]

The drunken, violent Scot is a sterotype and one I only encountered once and that was in London when I was attacked by said stereotype after ejecting him from a bar. I arrested him and he got 6 months for assaulting a police officer. There are parts of London where it is dangerous to go and I suspect the same is true in most big cities, which is why whenever I've visited Scotland, I've avoided places like Glasgow.

Here in the states, esp. the South Eastern Appalachian Mountains, violence, bloodshed, etc. is associated with the Scotch-Irish settlers, those Scots resettled in Ireland and then emigrating to the Southern states, of whom which I proudly hale. We are the rule and by no means a stereotype. Our struggles are not considered our cultural due like other ethnic people group, we are disdained by the power elite and dismissed as "rednecks, crackers, inbred, uneducated".

A disdain for we "rednecks" is prevalent in the English descended/controlled more prosperous regions along the east coast. Our politicians use us as examples of "bad Americans". But civilization in the states often comes with a loss of faith, as humanistic ideals displace innate belief in the Almighty. Southern "redneck" religion is often called a superstition, and the whole idea of faith is left behind in academic and material pursuits by those who feel they are superior to we people of heritage. And the drunken and reckless lifestyle of the Scotch-Irish southerners is proof to the uninformed, but well dressed, civilized folk that we rednecks have no value in society, their version of society.

It was a Samaritan whom Christ offered as an example of applied love. Very well could've been a redneck.

[Mel1721L]

Here in the states, esp. the South Eastern Appalachian Mountains, violence, bloodshed, etc. is associated with the Scotch-Irish settlers, those Scots resettled in Ireland and then emigrating to the Southern states, of whom which I proudly hale. We are the rule and by no means a stereotype. Our struggles are not considered our cultural due like other ethnic people group, we are disdained by the power elite and dismissed as "rednecks, crackers, inbred, uneducated".

A disdain for we "rednecks" is prevalent in the English descended/controlled more prosperous regions along the east coast. Our politicians use us as examples of "bad Americans". But civilization in the states often comes with a loss of faith, as humanistic ideals displace innate belief in the Almighty. Southern "redneck" religion is often called a superstition, and the whole idea of faith is left behind in academic and material pursuits by those who feel they are superior to we people of heritage. And the drunken and reckless lifestyle of the Scotch-Irish southerners is proof to the uninformed, but well dressed, civilized folk that we rednecks have no value in society, their version of society.

It was a Samaritan whom Christ offered as an example of applied love. Very well could've been a redneck.

Scotch is a whiskey, a Scot is a person, though not of Scottish ancestry myself, I believe it is something that annoys them. The author Charles Dickens always called them Scotchmen though.

The Scots originally came from Ireland, a tribe called the Scotti who subdued the Picts, I'm not well up on the details though.

If I had been born an American, I would like to have been born a Southerner. Perhaps I was in a previous life, for I certainly have always had an interest in the Confederacy and certainly many people with my family name fought on that side. I had considered a Confederate commemorative tartan kilt but as someone born in England, I felt it was inappropriate.

I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad,not just limited to the rednecks of the South. (Are there rednecks in the North?)

I will refrain from religious comment, as I think we aren't supposed to discuss those things here, but I am of the older religion.