Wearing the kilt in Scotland

[Half Scot Half Pole]

The drunken, violent Scot is a sterotype and one I only encountered once and that was in London when I was attacked by said stereotype after ejecting him from a bar. I arrested him and he got 6 months for assaulting a police officer. There are parts of London where it is dangerous to go and I suspect the same is true in most big cities, which is why whenever I've visited Scotland, I've avoided places like Glasgow.

Here in the states, esp. the South Eastern Appalachian Mountains, violence, bloodshed, etc. is associated with the Scotch-Irish settlers, those Scots resettled in Ireland and then emigrating to the Southern states, of whom which I proudly hale. We are the rule and by no means a stereotype. Our struggles are not considered our cultural due like other ethnic people group, we are disdained by the power elite and dismissed as "rednecks, crackers, inbred, uneducated".

A disdain for we "rednecks" is prevalent in the English descended/controlled more prosperous regions along the east coast. Our politicians use us as examples of "bad Americans". But civilization in the states often comes with a loss of faith, as humanistic ideals displace innate belief in the Almighty. Southern "redneck" religion is often called a superstition, and the whole idea of faith is left behind in academic and material pursuits by those who feel they are superior to we people of heritage. And the drunken and reckless lifestyle of the Scotch-Irish southerners is proof to the uninformed, but well dressed, civilized folk that we rednecks have no value in society, their version of society.

It was a Samaritan whom Christ offered as an example of applied love. Very well could've been a redneck.

[Mel1721L]

Here in the states, esp. the South Eastern Appalachian Mountains, violence, bloodshed, etc. is associated with the Scotch-Irish settlers, those Scots resettled in Ireland and then emigrating to the Southern states, of whom which I proudly hale. We are the rule and by no means a stereotype. Our struggles are not considered our cultural due like other ethnic people group, we are disdained by the power elite and dismissed as "rednecks, crackers, inbred, uneducated".

A disdain for we "rednecks" is prevalent in the English descended/controlled more prosperous regions along the east coast. Our politicians use us as examples of "bad Americans". But civilization in the states often comes with a loss of faith, as humanistic ideals displace innate belief in the Almighty. Southern "redneck" religion is often called a superstition, and the whole idea of faith is left behind in academic and material pursuits by those who feel they are superior to we people of heritage. And the drunken and reckless lifestyle of the Scotch-Irish southerners is proof to the uninformed, but well dressed, civilized folk that we rednecks have no value in society, their version of society.

It was a Samaritan whom Christ offered as an example of applied love. Very well could've been a redneck.

Scotch is a whiskey, a Scot is a person, though not of Scottish ancestry myself, I believe it is something that annoys them. The author Charles Dickens always called them Scotchmen though.

The Scots originally came from Ireland, a tribe called the Scotti who subdued the Picts, I'm not well up on the details though.

If I had been born an American, I would like to have been born a Southerner. Perhaps I was in a previous life, for I certainly have always had an interest in the Confederacy and certainly many people with my family name fought on that side. I had considered a Confederate commemorative tartan kilt but as someone born in England, I felt it was inappropriate.

I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad,not just limited to the rednecks of the South. (Are there rednecks in the North?)

I will refrain from religious comment, as I think we aren't supposed to discuss those things here, but I am of the older religion.

[Ron Abbott]

Scotch is a whiskey, a Scot is a person, though not of Scottish ancestry myself, I believe it is something that annoys them. The author Charles Dickens always called them Scotchmen though.

The Scots originally came from Ireland, a tribe called the Scotti who subdued the Picts, I'm not well up on the details though.

If I had been born an American, I would like to have been born a Southerner. Perhaps I was in a previous life, for I certainly have always had an interest in the Confederacy and certainly many people with my family name fought on that side. I had considered a Confederate commemorative tartan kilt but as someone born in England, I felt it was inappropriate.

I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad,not just limited to the rednecks of the South. (Are there rednecks in the North?)

I will refrain from religious comment, as I think we aren't supposed to discuss those things here, but I am of the older religion.

whiskey? whisky if you don't mind.

"The Scots originally came from Ireland"....well that's certainly what's been taught in the classrooms for a very long time, but in reality I think that you'll find that the jury is still out on that one. In more recent times, there have been some some academic discussions partly based on archaeological evidence (or non evidence?) and DNA analysis that suggests that it may not be the case.

"The Scotti who subdued the Picts"....hmmm.....jury's still out on that one as well. Subdued may not be the best of words. Subsumed perhaps? maybe culturally overwhelmed? Inter-married?

.......anyone got an alternative, better word or expression?

"I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad". Could be better I would certainly agree with but 'very bad'? In comparison with what? I'm not so sure. Even within the UK, Scotland has a different education system to that of England and Wales. Are we talking about formal education based on academic results or a more rounded education? So many questions.

The older religion? Buddhist? Zoastrian? Druid? Sun-worshipper?

[John_Carrick]

There are plenty of good history books but this seems a reasonable summary:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/histor...neth_macalpin/

[Mel1721L]

whiskey? whisky if you don't mind.

Sorry, don't drink it myself. Horrible stuff!

"The Scots originally came from Ireland"....well that's certainly what's been taught in the classrooms for a very long time, but in reality I think that you'll find that the jury is still out on that one. In more recent times, there have been some some academic discussions partly based on archaeological evidence (or non evidence?) and DNA analysis that suggests that it may not be the case.

Interesting, but we are going back a few years. I know the Spanish origin is being questioned.

"The Scotti who subdued the Picts"....hmmm.....jury's still out on that one as well. Subdued may not be the best of words. Subsumed perhaps? maybe culturally overwhelmed? Inter-married?

Maybe a wrong choice of word, overwhelmed? Intermarried perhaps.

.......anyone got an alternative, better word or expression?

"I think the education system in America and the UK is generally very bad". Could be better I would certainly agree with but 'very bad'? In comparison with what? I'm not so sure. Even within the UK, Scotland has a different education system to that of England and Wales. Are we talking about formal education based on academic results or a more rounded education? So many questions

In 2 words, political correctness.

The older religion? Buddhist? Zoastrian? Druid? Sun-worshipper?

I'm a Bard within the British Druid Order but my leanings were more Norse than Celt. Currently my spiritual path is moving more in the Celtic direction.

[John_Carrick]

On Harris a lady working in a tweed shop had never seen a kilted man in the shop before.
Moving East, I remember a kilt hire shop in Kirkwall and an Orcadian friend of mine has a kilt, but there is still a distinctly different identity to there to mainland Scotland.

[Calgacus]

The Scots originally came from Ireland, a tribe called the Scotti who subdued the Picts, I'm not well up on the details though.

As Ron points out, that's not really what happened. This documentary gives a nice little summary of what appears to have actually happened. The relevant section starts at 34:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6JDPd-T2BQ

[Mel1721L]

As Ron points out, that's not really what happened. This documentary gives a nice little summary of what appears to have actually happened. The relevant section starts at 34:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6JDPd-T2BQ

Thank you for your interesting link.

[mookien]

As Ron points out, that's not really what happened. This documentary gives a nice little summary of what appears to have actually happened. The relevant section starts at 34:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6JDPd-T2BQ

This was one of the most fascinating segments in the entire series to me. Until recently the demise/disappearance of the Picts was a great historical mystery. It is also described in Neil Oliver's book, "A History of Scotland" roughly from pp. 49 to 55.

[Nathan]

I'm not 100% convinced that Kenneth MacAlpine was a Pict. I agree that he was the King of Pictland rather than Alba, but the current British Royal Family is German and the next King of Scotland won't be a Scot. Just because he ruled Pictland rather than Argyll, doesn't make him a Pict. The fact that MacAlpine's name follows Gaelic convention rather than Welsh/Cornish and that fact that he was remembered by his own progeny as the first King of Alba, leads me to question whether the influence of the Dal Riata Gaels of Argyll had taken hold in Pictland earlier than Oliver concludes. Is it possible that MacAlpine was, as King of Pictland, a Vice Roy to the O'Neils in Dal Riata?

Oliver is also conflating Alba/Albainn with Scotland but he should be careful about timing here. Albion is the oldest known name for all of Britain although it's name came to mean Scotland much later. The fact that the Romans used the term Scotti to refer to the Irish and the fact that the Gaels eventually ascended to take control of the Northern third of Britain is being down played by contemporary academics in favour of Vikings, Picts. Perhaps they would rather be linked to anyone but the Irish?

The fact is that if one goes through the history of the Highland Clans one at a time, two things become clear. The first is that many chiefs trace their own roots to minor Irish Kings and the second is that they maintained that connection back and forth with Ireland for centuries.

An example of how a little information can lead us astray. The Clan Donald DNA project posited that since all of the current Clan Donald Chiefs have a DNA haplogroup found more commonly in Scandanavia than Ireland; our own annals which link Somerled (Somhairle) back to the Irish King Conn of the Hundred Battles must be false. The Red Book of Clanranald along with other sources say Clan Donald is descended from Conn's son Colla Uais. Prior to being called Clan Donald, we were Clan Colla.

So, in order to sort it out, an inventory of all other families who claim descent from Clan Colla in Ireland and Scotland was conducted by another DNA project of Colla descendants. Much to everyone's surprise, notwithstanding their Irishness, these other families also had a high percentage of the same "Viking" haplogroup. This made me conclude that given the movement of peoples across those Islands over the centuries, it was ridiculous to call one haplogroup Irish and another Viking. There is no genetic homogeneity - just clusters and we're talking about the descendants of one Irish King who may or may not have had a typical genetic profile for his Island.

Be careful of jumping to "obvious" conclusions and rewriting history. Our forebearers weren't all romantic fools.

Anyway, that example is just my say of saying there could be a puzzle piece missing here. I've run into a recent theory that the Scottish Gaels aren't as connected to the Irish Gaels as we previously believed. This too doesn't sit right with me. Families know who they are. The Frasiers know they're Norman and the MacDonalds and MacNeils know they're Irish.

Something doesn't make sense to me about the fact that MacAlpine had Gaelic name, a Gaelic relative who sheltered his sons who then established a Gaelic kingdom but was a Pict all along.

I'm not saying I have the proof to refute the claim, but I have my doubts and now also have a new research project.

N