Need some advice for a friend

[ardchoille]

I have a friend who says:

1. if it's not made from real tartan, it's not a kilt.. it's a skirt for men
2. never wear kilt hose with anything but dress shoes

I have a leather kilt that wear often with kilt hose and black boots, because it's quite comfortable, but he makes his statements every time I wear it. I'd like to hear your opinions of the above "statements". Is there anything backed by history that I can tell him (he'll listen if it has history backing it)? Animal hides have been worn by men for millions of years.

[Kid Cossack]

For starters:

http://www.albanach.org/facts.htm

http://kilts.albanach.org/tweeds.html

http://kilts.albanach.org/faq.html

All of these articles do a good job of pointing out that a lot of what we "know" about kilts, about what a proper kilt is, about what a kilt should be worn with, are the most arrant of nonsense.

Further, should he continue to believe that "if it's not tartan it's a skirt" I suggest that he tell these chaps that: http://www.royalirishrangers.co.uk/uniform.html

I find the persistence of myths about kilts to be a fascinating reminder of the very human desire for certainty, when the reality is probably a lot messier than we can even imagine.

[Ayin McFye]

I would let you friend know that the kilt is about comfort and convenience. If you think what you're wearing is comfortable and functional then you are being "historical".

You might not be wearing the exact thing that someone would wear a few hundred years ago, but neither is the leather kilt.

If you like wearing your hose with black boots i think that's great if it works for you.

[ardchoille]

If you think what you're wearing is comfortable and functional then you are being "historical".

My feelings exactly! I don't think men thought about "fashion" until the last few hundred years or so. Before that it was "whatever works" and I still feel this way.

[ardchoille]

For starters:

http://www.albanach.org/facts.htm

http://kilts.albanach.org/tweeds.html

http://kilts.albanach.org/faq.html

All of these articles do a good job of pointing out that a lot of what we "know" about kilts, about what a proper kilt is, about what a kilt should be worn with, are the most arrant of nonsense.

Further, should he continue to believe that "if it's not tartan it's a skirt" I suggest that he tell these chaps that: http://www.royalirishrangers.co.uk/uniform.html

I find the persistence of myths about kilts to be a fascinating reminder of the very human desire for certainty, when the reality is probably a lot messier than we can even imagine.

Very good "ammo", thank you

[Streetcar]

Ask him what he bases his statement on.

I had a woman tell me almost exactly the same thing about a month ago. I asked her why, and she told me all about how for hundreds of years the highland clansmen wore tartans to tell each other apart in battle....

I gave her a brief history of the evolution of the tartan and its relation to clans. She didn't care, but she no longer had ammo for her argument.

I didn't change her opinions, and didn't think I would. However, the other people in her group did have their opinions changed, and challenged her kilt-bias the rest of the night.

Attack the basis of the opinion - not the opinion itself.

[ardchoille]

Ask him what he bases his statement on.

I had a woman tell me almost exactly the same thing about a month ago. I asked her why, and she told me all about how for hundreds of years the highland clansmen wore tartans to tell each other apart in battle....

I gave her a brief history of the evolution of the tartan and its relation to clans. She didn't care, but she no longer had ammo for her argument.

I didn't change her opinions, and didn't think I would. However, the other people in her group did have their opinions changed, and challenged her kilt-bias the rest of the night.

Attack the basis of the opinion - not the opinion itself.

Very good advice

[davedove]

My feelings exactly! I don't think men thought about "fashion" until the last few hundred years or so. Before that it was "whatever works" and I still feel this way.

Well, that depends on who you are talking about. For the common man, I would definitely say that was a true statement. Although, some of them might have had a better set of clothes if they could afford them for special events.

If you consider the aristocracy though, men were often at the forefront of fashion. This would only have been a small subset of all men though.

I have a friend who says:
Is there anything backed by history that I can tell him (he'll listen if it has history backing it)?

You can always challenge him to show his evidence for his position. I'll bet he can't find anything to support it.

[Dirk Skene]

Personally I think your buddy is wound a little too tight and needs to loosen up a bit & enjoy life. There is a time for formal dress & a time for casual.

[Robert Lamb]

In my humble opinion I started wearing "the kilt" was a replacement for a pair of blue jeans..
I go casual or dressy depending on the weather and the ocassion.
Among my collection of 16 kilts one is black, one is kelly green and one is saffron.
I don't consider them any less of a kilt than my tartan kilts. So I think your friend need a reality check and some education when it comes to kilts.
Robert "the kilted" Lamb