Checkered Kilt Hose Etiquette?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

While it is true that argyle hose is usually often expensive, Hawick Sock Company makes a fairly large range of it that go with many tartans, and at reasonable prices, often retailing at less that US$60. The problem is finding retailers who carry them. Or how to buy them directly from the manufacturer.

Hawick Sock Company (real name is House of Cheviot) does make full Argyle hose, but absolutely not at $60 or less retail!

They make the Lewis hose we carry, which are solid color, and retail for $48. And this is about as low a retail price as we could sell them at and not lose our shirt on shipping costs, etc.

They also make the Balmoral hose we offer (which are a solid sock with a entralac top). These retail for $150, and again, that's about as low a retail price as we can offer these at (the tops are knit by hand).

We are, hopefully, in the new year going to begin offering diced and full argyle hose from them through our gift shop, and I anticipate the retail price being between $200 and $250, though I will try and keep that as low as I can. This is the same price range that you will find at most places, including Cuillin Craft, Highland Clans, Kenneth Short, and House of Tartan.

Note, I have not actually ordered argyle hose from the above companies, but I am providing links to their web sites for the purposes of price comparion. (Remember that the pound to dollar exchange rate is currently about 2:1). I know that Highland Clans carries other hose from House of Cheviot, so I would suspect that their argyle and diced hose come from them, as well, but I cannot confirm that. Kenneth Short is another hosiery firm in Hawick.

In short, unless you come across a real steal of a deal, you are not going to find an inexpensive pair of Argyll hose that is not also a cheap pair of hose. J. Higgins offers diced hose for $60. I have personally owned a pair of these and were not impressed with the quality. But you get what you pay for. If one needed diced hose and could not afford the price, these are a good alternative. But I wouldn't reccomend them as a matter of course. Higgins used to offer custom Argyle hose at about $75, I think, but I no longer see them listed on their web site. I've known two or three people who ordered them and none were happy with their purchase.

If someone were looking for a good deal on Argyle hose, House of Tartan has some listed on a sale page, for just over $100. These are pre-made, so you have to be happy with the colors and sizes that are available.

Then in my searching I came across this page offering custom hand knit argyll hose for $145. I have not done business with them, so I cannot speak of the quality, but if they are any good at all, that's a very good price for a pair of hand knit full tartan hose. If anyone has done business with them I'd like to hear what your impression of the socks was.

In short, argyle (full tartan) hose and diced hose are going to be expensive, no matter how you cut it, if you want any kind of quality at all. These are, for the most part, going to be custom ordered products, either machine knit in very small quantities, or hand knit to order. The upside is that if you buy from a reputable source, you will be getting a very fine quality product that will last a very long time -- and that's the real definition of "frugal!"

[James MacMillan]

The upside is that if you buy from a reputable source, you will be getting a very fine quality product that will last a very long time -- and that's the real definition of "frugal!"

Matt, I beg to differ, Frugal 1. Practicing or marked by economy, as in the expenditure of money or the use of material resources. See Synonyms at sparing.
2. Costing little; inexpensive: a frugal lunch.

Buying expensive things can never be called frugal. Wise? maybe. Smart? maybe. Regardless of the quality, a frugal person would never spend a lot of money on something he could do without.

[Phil]

This firm based in Ireland makes tartan and diced hose. I have not dealt with them but they have been on the go for a number of years and I believe they are reputable. The prices look about average so no real bargains there though.
http://www.kilkeelknitwear.com/new_page_26.htm

Kenneth Short I have dealt with and can recommend them. My hose (picture below) are theirs and I can vouch for the quality.

[Pleater]

So Sam Vimes' thoughts on boots are not current on the forum?

Samuel Vimes is the character on Discworld (a literary creation of Terry Pratchett) in charge of the city of Ankh Morpork Night Watch.

He points out that when a poor man needs boots he buys a pair for ten dollars, which begin to let in the water after a few months. In a year they are worn out and he has to buy another pair for another ten dollars.

When a rich man needs boots he buys a pair for fifty dollars which keep out the water and last a long time.

So, ten years down the line, the poor man has spent twice as much as the rich man on boots, and he still has wet feet.

I still have socks made from the yarn I knitted up when I was a teenager - I have learned to make better socks and so remade the old yarn into new socks, but the yarn had Nylon, was expensive by the standards of the time, but it is still good fourty years later.

[fluter]

I still have socks made from the yarn I knitted up when I was a teenager - ... the yarn had Nylon, was expensive by the standards of the time, but it is still good fourty years later.

Brava, pleater! now, that's frugal.

I'm dusting off my needles and thinking about some garter ties & finishing a scarf that's been languishing in my closet. Then I want to learn (cue ominous music) socks.

But I may try to commission some tartan hose from one of the young folks who knit; thus practicing economy and supporting education, which I'd also consider frugal.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I think all too often we are tempted to confuse "frugal" with "cheap." Frugality is really about spending your money wisely. My Webster's Collegiate defines frugal as "characterized by reflecting economy in the expenditure of resources." The definition of economy Webster's gives that seems most fitting here is "efficient use of material resources." In other words, it is about being efficient. Spending $60 on a cheap pair of Argyle hose that you are going to be unhappy with, or that will wear out with only a few wearings, may indeed by "cheap" but it is not frugal -- it is not an efficient expenditure of your resources, in other words. Whereas spending $150 or $200 on a good quality product that may indeed last your lifetime if cared for, is a much more frugal expenditure.

I recently came across this quote attributed to American president William McKinley, which I am considering framing and hanging in our gift shop!
“I do not prize the word 'cheap.' It is not a badge of honor. It is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country.”

[Daaaaang]

I recently came across this quote attributed to American president William McKinley, which I am considering framing and hanging in our gift shop!
“I do not prize the word 'cheap.' It is not a badge of honor. It is a symbol of despair. Cheap prices make for cheap goods; cheap goods make for cheap men; and cheap men make for a cheap country.”

I hope customers don't take it the wrong way, all with it hanging in a store

[Clockwork John]

[QUOTE=Pleater;464818]So Sam Vimes' thoughts on boots are not current on the forum?

Samuel Vimes is the character on Discworld (a literary creation of Terry Pratchett) in charge of the city of Ankh Morpork Night Watch.

He points out that when a poor man needs boots he buys a pair for ten dollars, which begin to let in the water after a few months. In a year they are worn out and he has to buy another pair for another ten dollars.

When a rich man needs boots he buys a pair for fifty dollars which keep out the water and last a long time.

So, ten years down the line, the poor man has spent twice as much as the rich man on boots, and he still has wet feet.
QUOTE]

I know this thread is about hose, but since someone brough it up...

Here are my thoughts on boots and frugality:

I've been through several pairs of cheap boots. They might last a year if I go easy on them. But most people, myself included, don't wear boots to go easy on them.

Roughly eight years ago, I was given a pair of steel-toed Doc Martens. With a price tag of $130 retail, they were far outside of my price range at the time, and truth be told, they still are.

After eight years of daily wear, I have finally worn them into the ground. The soles are worn slick and no longer provide any traction on any surface, and the leather has finally given out and cracked.

I'm thinking that eight years of wear warrants the $130 investment for another pair. So I started myself a boot fund. I took an empty jar and started tossing all my change in it, plus a few dollars here and there as I could afford it. I had about $50 saved up, with the promise of a retroactive raise at work, so I started shopping for boots.

I found DMs online (not the exact style I wanted but close enough) for $79 shipped. I was all set to buy myself a pair when my wife let it slip that I was getting a pair for Christmas that she had purchased at that incredibly low price.

So now I'm looking at (hopefully) another eight years of boot wear, at a cost of roughly half of retail.

I'd say that hunting for a quality product at an affordable price is pretty darn frugal. Maybe not cheap, but definitely prudent,wise, and frugal.

And that $50 in a jar has been relabeled "kilt fund."

[Jack Daw]

I forgot that I have visual aids. My red-and-off white castellated are featured to the far left. I was a judge at the Houston Highland Games' shortbread contest.

[fluter]

Phil, those hose are very bonny, indeed! (applause and cheers) Nice to see you about the forum again.

Matt, thanks for the additional info.

Matt, I beg to differ, Frugal 1. Practicing or marked by economy, as in the expenditure of money or the use of material resources. ...
a frugal person would never spend a lot of money on something he could do without.

Jay, by your own definition, I will differ. While I've been known to pinch a penny (I'll show you my 28-year old truck some day), your definition 1 says nothing to being miserly.

To me, it rather suggests the thoughtful direction of one's resources where they will do the most good. Economy is NOT meanness, OK?

Back to my truck, I spent a bit more than some would have budgeted when I purchased it. However that was 1979 and it's still my daily driver. Is that frugal enough for you? BTW major repairs have been less than half the purchase price, and a small fraction of replacement cost.

I will cheerfully spend $48 on a pair of plain Lewis kilt hose (I have 3 pairs, and my budget projections include more). They will last for years, and every time I put them on you can almost hear my feet give a sigh of bliss. My daily socks are thick, luxurious Merino wool---some folks would throw up their hands at the price, but I consider it both canny and frugal to buy them in packs of 2 or 3 pairs when the price is "right." And their cost is about the same as some of the cotton hose at Sock Dreams; which, as noted elsewhere, I'd not put on if I had to wear them all day. Your feet may vary.