Kilt hose observations

[Monkey@Arms]

Kilts are CLOTHES. Kilt hose are CLOTHES. Shoes are CLOTHES. Kilts and their accessories are fun, handsome, practical, comfortable, and they come to us down a long line of a proud tradition. But we need to remember that they are CLOTHES, and that there are more important things in this world than clothes.

Well said, Alan.

Best regards,

Jake

[macwilkin]

But what bothers me is that sometimes on this board it SEEMS TO ME....and I want to make it clear that this is just what SEEMS TO ME, and I could be very, very wrong, but it SEEMS TO ME that we put "proper clothes" at an unrealistically high level of importance in the world. It SEEMS TO ME, and I could be wrong, that sometimes in our enthusiasm for all things kilted and kilt-related on this forum, that SOMETIMES we lose perspective on "kilts" in relation to the rest of the world..

Of course, to be fair Alan, you should not distinguish between traditional and contemporary kilts -- I can't see myself ever owning a half-dozen casual kilts, when I can save my money and have a kilt that lasts a lifetime, thereby allowing me to put my money towards other things, like charitable causes. You could easily rack up $200 on casual kilts -- is there a difference between that and paying $200 for a pair of hose? Mind you, I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

And most of the "traditionalists" I know are very generous with charitable causes. While I agree with what you are saying in principle, someone could take the view that all traditionalists care about are high-end clothes. I belong to a Scottish organization that has given donations of money, foodstuffs, clothing, etc. to battered women's shelters, VA hospitals, civic groups, etc.

Just something to consider...

T.

[beloitpiper]

But what bothers me is that sometimes on this board it SEEMS TO ME....and I want to make it clear that this is just what SEEMS TO ME, and I could be very, very wrong, but it SEEMS TO ME that we put "proper clothes" at an unrealistically high level of importance in the world. It SEEMS TO ME, and I could be wrong, that sometimes in our enthusiasm for all things kilted and kilt-related on this forum, that SOMETIMES we lose perspective on "kilts" in relation to the rest of the world..

Of course, it SEEMS that we talk about clothes too much--this is a kilt forum! When I want to talk about politics, I'll go to a politics forum, or if I want to talk about environmental issues, I'll go to an environmental forum. But when I want to talk about kilts and the clothes that go with kilts, I come here.

[Alan H]

Of course, to be fair Alan, you should not distinguish between traditional and contemporary kilts, Alan -- I can't see myself ever owning a half-dozen casual kilts, when I can save my money and have a kilt that lasts a lifetime, thereby allowing me to put my money towards other things, like charitable causes.

And most of the "traditionalists" I know are very generous with charitable causes. While I agree with what you are saying in principle, someone could take the view that all traditionalists care about are high-end clothes. I belong to a Scottish organization that has given donations of money, foodstuffs, clothing, etc. to battered women's shelters, VA hospitals, civic groups, etc.

Just something to consider...

T.

Absolutely, Todd. I completely understand where you are coming from. To you, a kilt; your one or two kilts, represent tradition and history and family, and they're not things that you treat lightly. You have no need to make a knockaround X-Kilt, it's just not what "the kilt" means to you. It's not where your heart is at. To you, you'd rather own one pair of expensive, well-made kilt hose and one kilt and make them last for 20 years, wearing them to those special events for which you reserve your wonderful, traditionally-made kilt.

I so TOTALLY understand this. I am TOTALLY behind this, and have been since day one. I happen to like wearing both nice traditional kilts and casual kilts, but there's room in the world and on this forum for both outlooks.

It's not really the money. If someone has a lot of money and they choose to buy ten pairs of $200 kilt hose or a $2,000 pair of shoes, that's fine. I hope they also help out the world around them in other ways, too. I also hope they don't look down their nose at people who either choose to wear, or have to wear less expensive items. It's not money, exactly. It's priorities.

As you point out, many "traditionalists" are generous supporting the world around us, and important causes. Absolutely, this is true, Todd. Also, it must be said that poverty does not automatically imbue someone with saintly virtue. Some of us wear casual kilts, and can't see beyond our noses....and some who wear casual kilts are very aware of things which truly matter. Upshot is, the style of kilt you or I wear has *nothing* to do with our priorities in this "department".

I am not knocking traditionalists. No way, no how.

I'm saying two things: 1.) that I, personally, for me, could not ever justify spending $2,500 on a pair of shoes, or $200 on a pair of socks, The reason is that to me, these things are just clothes and there are much more important things in the world, and I'd like to put at least most of my resources where my heart is.

2.) I think that sometimes on this forum we...*WE*... get so into the kilts and accessories and so on that these items get blown out of perspective with the rest of Life.

My personal "line" is such that while I'm jonesin for my socks from String, the *undisclosed amount* I'm paying her for those socks (and it's a LOT less than $200), is a real issue for me. Am I so important that I need to spend X-dollars on my socks when I COULD spend $45 on fantastic Hawick socks from Matt and do something worthwhile for the world around me with the difference? If I sent those X-dollars to UNICEF, how many kids would get a meal out of that? I need to make decisions like those, because in my life, how I treat my resources, like money, are moral and ethical decisions.

I don't sweat every cup of coffee, eh? And I don't agonize over a twelve dollar pair of nice, cotton, made in the USA kilt hose from Hamilton Dry Goods. But I DO think about hundred dollar purchases, and I certainly think about $500 and $2500 purchases.

[Alan H]

Of course, it SEEMS that we talk about clothes too much--this is a kilt forum! When I want to talk about politics, I'll go to a politics forum, or if I want to talk about environmental issues, I'll go to an environmental forum. But when I want to talk about kilts and the clothes that go with kilts, I come here.

Absolutely!

But for me, but kilts are a part of "life". Yes the line gets very fuzzy, here. We talk about some parts of life, here and don't talk about other parts. Yeah, I hear that.


Maybe look at it this way?...just an idea, here.

Let's say that you have $400. You could buy a kilt. Now you have to make some decisions. Which kilt should you buy? Which tartan should you request? Should it be pleated to stripe or to sett? Do you want 13 ounce or 16 ounce cloth? from which Mill should you purchase your cloth? How would you like your buckles? Do you want box pleated, knife pleated, military box-pleated, kinguisse or reverse kinguisse?

I propose that in fact you *might* have one other decision to make about your kilt, and the money you are going to spend on it... maybe. Maybe NOT, I dunno.

1. Would I rest more easily in my heart if I spent $300 on my kilt and used the remaining $100 doing "something else".....like maybe supporting the local Homeless shelter.

And now I think I've beaten my drum enough on this topic, and it's time to let others have their say, as well.

[Chef]

Alan, this is a grand stand and while you are saying you don't judge others based on their choices it looks a great deal like you are. As beloitpiper said this is a kilt forum where we discuss kilts.

What choices any of us make with our money is our business. You have no idea how much I or anyone else gave to our church, to UNICEF or any other worthy cause.

I know it bothers you when traditionalists disagree with you on highland attire, fine so be it. I don't care what you wear or why, but I don't have to think it is correct either. However for you to decide to claim some moral high ground because you choose less expensive hose than some one else does is out of line. Over the time I have been a member here I have enjoyed your pictures, your posts and your point of view (even though we don't always agree) but I think this is out of line.

[Panache]

I see both Alan's side and Todd's.

Everytime Phil shameless flaunts his custom made hose in the Galbraith Ancient colors I go looking at different sites for custom hose (DARN YOU PHIL!!! )

But try as I might I just can't bring myself to spend $150+ for socks!

But given how nice they look and if they are well made, maybe they are worth the investment for a lifetime of use on special occasions?

Hmmmmm

I do wonder if there is a compromise available.

Perhaps a group buy for custom hose matching the X Marks the Scot tartan?

Cheers

Jamie

[Alan H]

I see both Alan's side and Todd's.............

Cheers

Jamie

I TOTALLY understand where Todd is coming from and I agree with it. If someone wishes to own just a few well-made, tastefully coordinated, traditional kilt items that are personally related to their heritage, and wear those items to occasions that call for being well-dressed, well....what's the problem with that? I've seen pictures of Todd, and he always looks good. Todd makes a HUGE contribution to the forum. His knowledge and sincerity and thoroughness contribute mightily to X Marks the Scot, as well as the historical Societies he belongs to and his local Scottish groups. The last thing I'm trying to do is say that Todd is wrong in his approach to wearing the kilt, or in anything else for that matter!

Crikey! NOT, NOT. This is by NO means A.) a personal vendetta, or B. ) a condemnation of Todds views/practices on wearing of the kilt! NO..NOT! TOTALLY NOT. I don' tknow how I can be more clear. It's NOT.

I just think that there's a difference between frugality/buying quality and wretched excess, and sometimes in our discussions here, that difference gets ignored. The problem with wretched excess is not the excess itself. It's the principle behind it.

[beloitpiper]

You have no idea how much I or anyone else gave to our church, to UNICEF or any other worthy cause.

He's right. Sure, I spend money on kilts and whatnot, but I also volunteer at a nursing home, build for Habitat, and work on the recycling and paper-management program on campus. Do I discuss it on X Marks? No, because this is A PLACE FOR KILTS. I don't want to sound angry, because I'm not, but to say that we could be using all the money we spend on kilts on more lofty proposals is a bit presumptuous. Just because it's not mentioned does not mean it does not happen.

So I think we should stick to what we can all relate to. Let's keep this about kilts, and if you want to let everybody know much you donated to UNICEF this Christmas, do it in the Off Topic section.

[macwilkin]

All right, everyone. Let's take a deep breath, myself included.

Alan: thank you for your explanation, and for the kind words. I do appreciate it. I'm sure you meant no disprect or offence towards anyone, especially Chef. Personal finances and charitable contributions should remain just that -- personal -- especially on a public forum.
But, I do understand where you are coming from.

Regards,

Todd