Tailor (new member) asking for help

[Cutter]

Here's a kilt concept that helped me understand their construction (talking about the traditional knife-pleated woolen kilt you're dealing with here, not modern demins and the like). The buckles are attached to the inner canvas/stiffener, so the wearer is "wearing" the lining and inner construction. The woolen outer garment is attached to the lining etc., but is more free to float and swing as the wearer moves.

Here on the forum, "tank" is commonly used to describe these traditional kilts. It was originally coined to indicate their durability, as in "made like a tank." However, I also think of the wearers as riding around inside the garment, like the soldier inside a tank. Not sure this image will help your project but it did help me visualize the construction.

Vis-a-vis reworking pleats and aprons, take note of the A-shape of aprons and the tapering width of pleats that should exist in the original garment. This change in circumference from hip to waist is a main factor in keeping the kilt in position on the wearer, and must be maintained (or improved) as you alter the garment to this wearer.

Hope this makes sense! As Canuck noted, you might be able to get him through the event with some buckle trickery, if the full re-work couldn't be done in time. Best of luck.

Thanks. Actually, this kilt has fused canvass. I'm all for economy, but it somehow seems strange to fuse, especially given your explanation. The wearer isn't wearing the inner construction (that would make sense, if he would).

Hi Cutter,

15 cm is a lot to take out of a kilt. What you really want to do is take the same amount out of the over apron, under apron, and the pleats. As stated above, you can increase the reverse pleat and the inverted pleats. These are next to each apron. Next, eliminate a pleat on each side. The idea is to keep everything symetrical.

Good tips, thank you! However, clarify for me please: if I deepen the pleats next to the aprons 15cm/4, meaning 3.5 off of each apron and 3.5 deepening of these two pleats, why would I have to eliminate pleats?

@Canuck: Got the point, thanks. I'll go for the full repair I suppose, there still is time, and this gentleman has had plenty of headaches. Wouldn't want to have him come back another round. (unless for a nice shirt or something )


Thanks for the input everyone!

[The Wizard of BC]

Just for clarification would you answer some questions so that we may assist you better.

1. Is the Kilt sewn with a sewing machine or is it done with hand stitching?

2. Does the Kilt have the pleats cut away in the area of the back where the pleats are sewn down? (you may have to lift the inner liner to determine this.

3. Can you tell the composition of the fabric? Is it Wool, a Polyester/Rayon blend or possibly an Acrylic?

4. Would you please measure the kilt and let us know the dimensions of the following;
a. Measure along the hem and let us know how much fabric is in the Kilt.
b. What is the width of the apron at the waistband?
c. What is the width of the apron at the hem?
d. How many pleats are there?
e. Please measure from the outward crease of one pleat to the outward crease of the next. How much fabric is there in one complete pleat.
f. Please measure the width of the exposed part of the pleats a the bottom of where they are sewn down and tapered. (A good average dimension is fine.)
g. Please measure the size of one repeat of the Tartan Pattern.

With these measurements we can asses what type of Kilt you have and then better help you with a modification.

[Cutter]

Hello Wiz, thanks for the questions.


1. Is the Kilt sewn with a sewing machine or is it done with hand stitching?
-Fully machined, fused canvass.

2. Does the Kilt have the pleats cut away in the area of the back where the pleats are sewn down? (you may have to lift the inner liner to determine this.
-No, not cut away.

3. Can you tell the composition of the fabric? Is it Wool, a Polyester/Rayon blend or possibly an Acrylic?
-100% Wool

a. Measure along the hem and let us know how much fabric is in the Kilt.
-7 meters. Which is odd, because my punter payed a lot more money, in choosing the 8 meter version.

b. What is the width of the apron at the waistband?
-65cm

c. What is the width of the apron at the hem?
-76

d. How many pleats are there?
-30

e. Please measure from the outward crease of one pleat to the outward crease of the next. How much fabric is there in one complete pleat.
-Not sure how you mean, they are sewn shut. Opened one, measured into it, gives me: pleat spacing is 2 cm, each pleat takes 8+6+2=16cm


f. Please measure the width of the exposed part of the pleats a the bottom of where they are sewn down and tapered. (A good average dimension is fine.)
-10+8+2.5=20.5


g. Please measure the size of one repeat of the Tartan Pattern.
-it's a solid colour cloth.

(Where's that icon for fingers crossed?)

By the way, my client is of course rather less than satisfied. Does anyone feel that the maker should fix this issue? The problem is that he can't afford to send it back to Scotland because he really needs it to perform.

[Pleater]

I used to do running repairs for amateur dramatics, not something for the faint hearted. Compromise is required, to have something to wear on the night. At least you still have time.

So 15 cm - 6 inches - in total too large - I never did go metric. That is the waist, when fastened as when worn, is 6 inches too large.

To be done by Friday!!

OK - Don't panic - what I would do is remove the waistband from the apron and under apron, then make each one smaller by 6 inches and increase the size of the under apron pleats to take up that amount.

You might have to reshape the edge of the apron on the left side, - first smooth it out to flat and then start over. (You probably knew that, just covering all the bases.)

Then check that the deeper under pleat lies correctly. By lifting or lowering the new inside fold a little higher or lower at the waist you draw in or push out the outer edge. I have to raise the fold up to 1/2 an inch on my kilts - but I have child bearing hips. You have a perfectionist, so you might need to use the trick to achieve perfection. Join the pleat to the waist gradually reducing the lifting or lowering to nothing at the outer edge of the apron.

Once you have that sorted you can refix the waist band - I would not cut off the extra waistband but fold it inside itself for possible use at a later date, expansion, repair - whatever.

It is not the ideal solution - but it is not a tartan fabric so the placing of the waistband and pattern is not relevant.

It will mean that the pleats are forming a larger percentage of the waist circumference than for a traditional kilt - but the fashion is for narrower aprons on non tartan kilts, and it is the fastest way to sort out the problem.

An alternative, though more of a fudge, is to have the apron cover some of the pleats on the right side, which - probably is only a bit less work, and if the narrow apron is acceptable, in the pinch you are in - no - I think the first option is going to be the most satisfactory in the long run. It might be possible to return the kilt for reworking at some time if all the fabric is still there.

If you really want to live dangerously, remove the entire waistband, and take out some of the pleats, remaking the seam, enlarge the under apron pleats each side to narrow the apron and under apron, and reattach the waistband. you could then retain the proportions of pleats to apron width at the waistband. The trick would be to perfectly match the sewing of the pleat where you joint the two halves.

I am really wickedly pleased that I don't have this problem to sort out, and wish you good luck with it.


Baroness Anne the mirthful of Fritterton on the Heath

[sydnie7]

[snip]. . . my punter payed a lot more money, in choosing the 8 meter version. . . Does anyone feel that the maker should fix this issue?

Most online kilt ordering sites I've seen have some disclaimer about the amount of material being dependent on the wearer's measurements. That said, if the maker offered both 7-meter and 8-meter pricing, accepted payment for an 8-meter kilt then delivered a 7-meter product, something smells fishy. And an unwearable 7-meter product at that!

I don't know what your credit card protection is like in Europe, but if something like this had happened to me in the U.S. I would:
1. Immediately dispute the charge with credit card company (to start the potential "I'm not going to pay for this unusable garment" process)
2. Make the least possible modifications to render the kilt usable for the immediate event
3. After the event, return the modified kilt to the maker for either complete rework or refund.

But that's me, and that's assuming some protection is available through the credit card company. If your friend didn't pay with a card, or the card company won't open a dispute on the transaction, and the maker has washed their hands of the matter, then it sounds as if you and your skills are his best hope. Lucky friend!

Best of luck
Sydnie

P.S. I'll be the first to ask. . . are you willing to post the name of the maker here, so that potential customers can know about the problems with this specific transaction?

[The Wizard of BC]

Also please remember we are talking here using two different methods of measuring. You have a 7 meter Kilt. But Kilt fabric is measured in yards.

I Know, I Know. it's insane but it is the system we live with.

Your 7 meter Kilt is equal 7.63 yards.

An 8 yard Kilt is made from APPROXIMATELY 8 yards of fabric. This is adjusted according to the depth of the pleat, (in a Tartan this is directly tied to the size of the Sett or one repeat of the Tartan pattern) the size of the person the Kilt is to fit, and the style of Kilt made.

As you have a machine sewn, solid color Kilt it is far closer in construction to what I make than the Traditional hand-sewn Kilts. So, I will see if I have some photos of the last re-build I did and I will post them with instructions. Possibly later today.

[Cutter]

First of all: I have an extra week. My mistake, my client is playing a week on friday, so I'm cool for now. Please, keep the ideas coming....

@Pleater: I think I get the idea. I'm not sure I want to go for your first suggestion. Good tips about raising the fabric edge though!

@Sydnie: I'm afraid I can't tell you who it was. Being in the trade, I know how easily things can go wrong when ordering online. Heaven forbid my clients start mailing me their measurements. Unfortunately, I wasn't there when he took the measurements.
Furthermore, I'm not the one having the issue, I'm just looking for advise. I feel it would be bad form to deride a colleague in somebody elses name. Besides that, I feel they may still come up with a solution today or tomorrow.

@Wiz......: Anxiously awaiting those pics! Oh, and eh... if a kilt is approximately 8 yards, does that mean the size is also approximately right?

In the end, I think my safest bet would be to take 1 4th off of each apron, and deepen each pleat adjacent by 1 4th. That should work, right?

[Canuck]

In the end, I think my safest bet would be to take 1 4th off of each apron, and deepen each pleat adjacent by 1 4th. That should work, right?

um not exactly...the pleats may not hang exactly correct. PM on it's way

[Pleater]

Oh a whole extra week - enough time to make a whole new kilt.

Is it your intention to cut fabric from the edges of the apron and under apron?

I'd advise against it if at all possible.

The kilt really should not be 6 inches larger than the wearer's waist, but ideally for made to measure should be just right when the buckles are fastened at the middle hole, with adjustment tighter and looser on the straps.

I make my own kilts with quite large under apron pleats - that is under both aprons, as that gives greater freedom of movement and the apron falls modestly when sitting down.

There is no need to remove any fabric, that is, cut it off, IF it can be put to good use in the under apron pleats.

If the maker should at some point offer to remake the kilt, if the aprons have been narrowed by cutting off fabric it might not be possible to take up that offer - and the aprons might be narrower than the 'normal' width of a traditional kilt.

I think that the usual situation is for there to be about two inches more pleats than apron when measured at the waist. So a 40 inch waist kilt would normally have 22 inches of pleats and 18 inches for each apron - though there are differences between makers, some making the proportions more or less, some making the aprons not quite the same width.

The ideal solution could be for some pleats to be removed from each side of the back seam, if it could be done without spoiling the material - perhaps unfusing the lining with steam first, so that the length of pleats is reduced to what would be the standard length of the true waist size. The aprons could then be reduced to the correct width, with the buckles restored to their original places.

The problem would be sewing the joining pleat down so it looks identical to the rest.

The maker really should not have put you in this situation in the first place - where is the quality control?

Baroness Anne the mirthful of Fritterton on the Heath

[ChattanCat]

Good tips, thank you! However, clarify for me please: if I deepen the pleats next to the aprons 15cm/4, meaning 3.5 off of each apron and 3.5 deepening of these two pleats, why would I have to eliminate pleats?

Thanks for the input everyone!

If you think of the kilt as segmented into thirds; 1/3 front apron, 1/3 pleats, 1/3 under apron. If the proprtions are not maintained then the front aprons will be smaller than the pleats. The apron edges will probably on the insde of the knee. When walking you will be kicking the apron edge towards the middle and opening up or folding over as your client walks.

Most traditional apron edges are tapered from the hips to the bottom edge about 1.5 inches. This allows the apron to rest on the outside of the knee and reduce the kickout of the apron while walking.

I make traditional kilts so my knowledge of non-traditional methods can not help you here. The Wizard of BC will help you more than I can. For instance, I use sewn in hair canvas and not fused.