joining the clan

[O'Callaghan]

AFAIK, The O'Callaghan speaks English well enough. He may not be interested, which is OK.

I'm also aware of the McCarthy problem that led to the IRO ceasing to record Irish titles of nobility.

The relevant part of the Irish constitution states:

1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State.

2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.

The IRO used to keep track of old existing Irish titles of nobility and their descent, before they stopped doing so, and I assume that they considered that existing hereditary titles are automatic and are neither "conferred by the State" nor "accepted by any citizen", but that they just exist as a fact on the ground. I know the IRO justified tracking them on the basis that titles are property, but that didn't stop them from ceasing to do it.

As far as such titles relate to defining who is the chief of a clan, then I suppose this relates to clans, but there is nothing here about clans, let alone whether any official can determine whether they are in existence or not.

Scotland is of course, another matter, but I personally would defer to Jock.

[macwilkin]

AFAIK, The O'Callaghan speaks English well enough. He may not be interested, which is OK.

I'm also aware of the McCarthy problem that led to the IRO ceasing to record Irish titles of nobility.

The relevant part of the Irish constitution states:

1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State.

2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.

The IRO used to keep track of old existing Irish titles of nobility and their descent, before they stopped doing so, and I assume that they considered that existing hereditary titles are automatic and are neither "conferred by the State" nor "accepted by any citizen", but that they just exist as a fact on the ground. I know the IRO justified tracking them on the basis that titles are property, but that didn't stop them from ceasing to do it.

As far as such titles relate to defining who is the chief of a clan, then I suppose this relates to clans, but there is nothing here about clans, let alone whether any official can determine whether they are in existence or not.

Scotland is of course, another matter, but I personally would defer to Jock.

Information:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmur...s/register.htm

Regards,

Todd

[O'Callaghan]

Information:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~seanjmur...s/register.htm

Regards,

Todd

Interesting article.

AFAIK, the title of The O'Callaghan has passed to the next generation, as well a Spanish title also held.

[AcuteEnigma]

If there is no chief, there is no clan.

How can you say such nonsense?

?????

Wow. This really makes me angry.

[insert cuss words here]

[AcuteEnigma]

If you are wanting to JOIN Clan Buchanan, the California chapter at least is quite busy. I went to their AGM at Pleasanton, CA at the end of the summer. About 50-60 people were there. I even got a kiss from a cute guy that I was NOT expecting.

:-)

I'm not a member of that clan but my friends are. I've read their newsletter and there is certainly an active society.

http://www.buchanansociety.com/ {international}
http://www.geocities.com/ayebuchanan/index.html {USA}


If you are wanting to SWEAR FEALTY, you might want to check out the SCA instead.

[AcuteEnigma]

Now there you go. The very article you point to confirms that the Lord Lyon acknowledges the EXISTANCE of a clan with no chief.
"On May 16, 1989 Malcolm R. Innes of Edingight, CVO, WS Lord Lyon King of Arms Scotland, confirmed the right for Clan Young to have a Crest Badge for all members of Clan Young...."

Hector,

Gilmore is correct in his statement and is following Scots custom. If you search the Standing Council of Scottish Chief's web site, you should find no reference to a Chief of the Clan Young. However, the following article from electricscotland.com does shed some light on Clan Young's status with the Lyon Court:

http://www.electricscotland.com/webc...oz/young2.html

Many Scottish clans do not have a chief at present, yet this should not deminish the work of their clan societies; witness the Buchanan Society, one of the oldest clan societies (founded in the early 19th century in Scotland).

Regards,

Todd

[AcuteEnigma]

Take a look at the list of clans here and the information just above it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_clan

And the counterpart:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armigerous_clan

[gilmore]

If you are wanting to JOIN Clan Buchanan, the California chapter at least is quite busy. I went to their AGM at Pleasanton, CA at the end of the summer. About 50-60 people were there. I even got a kiss from a cute guy that I was NOT expecting.

:-)

I'm not a member of that clan but my friends are. I've read their newsletter and there is certainly an active society.

http://www.buchanansociety.com/ {international}
http://www.geocities.com/ayebuchanan/index.html {USA}


If you are wanting to SWEAR FEALTY, you might want to check out the SCA instead.

A clan and a clan society are two quite different, though similar things.

Get angry if you like, but please try to do a bit of research before expressing it here.

[AcuteEnigma]

I joined the Ross Clan Society of America several years back. I maintained membership for some time. Things got a little tight financially and I let my membership lapse. I recently looked into joining again. So now I ask myself what does $25.00 a year get me that I don't already have? A newsletter and a name tag to wear at the Highland games. I spent my money on a new Thrifty kilt instead. I am Matty Ross of the Clan ROSS. I am just not a member of the local society anymore.

It gets you information you might not otherwise get AND you support your family.
My gateway ancestor who came over in 1698 died about 1743 and no one had found a will because the courthouse and records burned down in the late 1800's.

Then lo and behold! A small genealogy club in North Carolina(?) published a set of wills which used an old will to establish legal rights to some property.
YUP! That was our ancestor's long lost will.

I would never have known if I wasn't part of the society.

[AcuteEnigma]

A clan and a clan society are two quite different, though similar things.

Get angry if you like, but please try to do a bit of research before expressing it here.

I don't need to do any research to know what my feelings are.

I am sorry you do not understand what a Scottish clan is.