IDEAL v. BUDGET

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Ok, you highland dress traditionalists out there -- I have an advice thread idea. I had given some thought to writing an article of sorts along these lines myself, but then I decided I would be more interested in hearing what the collected wisdom of this forum might come up with.

So, here's the idea. You are giving advice to someone with an interest in traditional Highland attire. They want to do it up right. They want to dress with style, and also with respect to the Highland tradition. How do you advise them?

And I want you to make two recommendations. The first, the IDEAL, is what you would suggest they acquire without any respect to cost, as if money were no object. The second, BUDGET, is what you would recommend to them, acknowledging the ideal for what it is, but simply being too pricey, if they had a rather limited budget available to them. Note, the object of the BUDGET recommendation is not to find the cheapest alternative, but to suggest what you would recommend as being an advisable, stylish and traditional choice for someone whose financial means preclude the IDEAL.

I suggest these categories:

1. The kilt itself.
2. Shoes, daywear.
3. Shoes, eveningwear.
4. Hose, daywear.
5. Hose, eveningwear.
6. Sporran, daywear.
7. Sporran, eveningwear.
8. Jacket and/or waistcoat, daywear.
9. Jacket and/or waistcoat, eveningwear.
10. (Because it has to be a round number), your one other piece of personal advice.

Let the fun begin!

[Splash_4]

Oooh, what a great idea. Grabbing the popcorn to see what the rabble comes up with.

[Kilted Rogue]

Oooh, what a great idea. Grabbing the popcorn to see what the rabble comes up with.

Move over, this is going to be a good show!

[ForresterModern]

Oy vay, I am getting a headace just thinking about it. Better sleep on it. If I can sleep, now that I am thinking about it.

[JRB]

1. The kilt itself.
2. Shoes, daywear.
3. Shoes, eveningwear.
4. Hose, daywear.
5. Hose, eveningwear.
6. Sporran, daywear.
7. Sporran, eveningwear.
8. Jacket and/or waistcoat, daywear.
9. Jacket and/or waistcoat, eveningwear.
10. (Because it has to be a round number), your one other piece of personal advice.

I'll give it a shot...

Ideal
1. Kilt: 16oz., 8yd., worsted wool, clan tartan, pleated to sett or stripe.
2. Shoes, daywear: cordovan leather Brogues.
3. Shoes, eveningwear: Buckle shoes
4. Hose, daywear: Thick colored hose (like pipers hose)
5. Hose, eveningwear: Tartan or diced hose.
6. Sporran, daywear: FB fur or leather sporran.
7. Sporran, eveningwear: Seal sporran with silver cantle.
8. Jacket/waistcoat, daywear: Tweed argyll (for both).
9. Jacket/waistcoat, eveningwear: Black barathea argyll or PC (for both)
10. Personal advice: Wear it with pride and know your tartan.

Budget
1. Kilt: 4 or 5yd. knife or box pleat, 13oz. ,wool, tartan, pleated to sett or stripe.
2. Shoes daywear: Any sort of brogue, any casual leather shoe or short boot.
3. Shoes, eveningwear: Ant sort of brogue, any dressy shoe.
4. Hose, daywear: Standard wool blend colored kilt hose.
5. Hose, eveningwear: Standard wool blend colored kilt hose.
6. Sporran, daywear: Any leather sporran without shiny tassels.
7. Sporran, eveningwear: Any leather sporran with shiny metal bits.
8. Jacket/waistcoat daywear: None or a cheap vest from Target and converted sportcoat)
9. Jacket/waistcoat, eveningwear: Black barathea wool kilt jacket or converted suit jacket.
10. Personal advice: Same as with ideal set up...wear it with pride and know your tartan.

[English Bloke]

I'll bow out of this one...
Being a denim Jacket wearer and owner of some poor quality kilts I wouldn't say I epitomise Tradtional.

EDIT:The only thing I would add on buying a Kilt, and I speak from experience. If the person or company you are buying it from doesn't ask for your actual measured measurements. Don't buy it! Better a well made custom kilt than a number of poorly made rubbish. That was an expensive lesson to learn!

[dfmacliam]

Good idea, I am watching with curiousity... Especially the budget responses.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

The Highland Gentleman's Ideal Wardrobe:

1) KILT-- Two traditional, hand sewn kilts, both superfine 16-ounce weave, in either a clan or associated tartan. One pleated to either the sett or stripe for evening or dress wear, and the other in the same sett but "weathered" for Highland games and less dressy occasions. The second kilt could be box pleated as a matter of personal preference.

2) Shoes (day wear)-- low cut, well polished oxfords or bluchers, with or without brogue-ing. If attending an outdoor event, well polished black ghillie brogues with a soft sole (but not a "commando" sole, and definitely no nails in the heels or or soles) are appropriate.

3) Shoes (evening wear)-- shoes depend on the type of necktie being worn. Well polished black oxfords work best if one is wearing a four-in-hand tie. With black tie either oxfords or a patent leather evening shoe work well (but not the ex-military plastic looking shoes by Bates and others). Formal Highland evening shoes (with buckle and strap) are also appropriate. With white tie only formal Highland evening shoes should be worn.

4) Hose (day wear)-- Any Colour But White is the rule. ACBW includes cream, off-white, pale tan, etc. The hose (along with the flashes) should make a definite statement, and that statement should be, "I didn't rent my kilt outfit", which is what people will think if they see you in white socks. Mid-weight hose are the best option, and tops can be as fancy as you like. Tartan flashes are to be avoided.

5) Hose (evening wear)-- black tie or white tie: Three pair of hose are nice, one in tartan to match the kilt, one pair in an argyle pattern for a slightly less formal look, and one pair of diced hose. Deep red hose may also be worn with black tie. Hose may be either cuffed or castellated as either is appropriate. If wearing a four-in-hand tie, then a dark pair of day wear hose is the most appropriate choice.

6) Sporran (day wear)-- One of each of the following: a full mask muskrat, an all leather sporran, and a brass cantle sporran, any of which are perfectly acceptable for wear before 6PM. (Contrary to popular opinion your shoes and sporran don't have to match.)

7) Sporran (evening wear)-- With a four-in-hand tie either the muskrat or brass cantle sporran. With black tie wear either a silver mounted skin sporran (seal, leopard, bobcat, etc. but not rabbit fur or anything else "fuzzy") or a silver mounted horsehair sporran.

8) Jacket/waistcoat (day wear)-- Tweed jacket with matching waistcoat; dark gray wool, or wool blend, jacket with matching waistcoat; black Argyll jacket with matching waistcoat.

9) Jacket/waistcoat (evening wear)-- Regulation doublet in black barathea with two matching waistcoats, one black, one white. If you are an armiger then I'd suggest a third waistcoat in your livery colours as a bit of whimsy. Alternatively a doublet and waistcoat cut from tartan is also appropriate.

10) Advice? Spend the money for tailored clothing. Only buy sterling silver accessories-- sporran, kilt pin, sgian dubh, belt plate-- what seems expensive today will only be seen as cheap in a decade. Put wooden shoe trees in your shoes, and keep your shoes in cloth bags. Don't look to "red carpet" celebrities for fashion tips-- a white shirt and a conservative tie is always correct. Learn to tie your own bow tie, and never leave your house without shining your shoes.

The Highland Gentleman's Ideal Wardrobe (on a budget!)

1) Kilt-- spend the money and buy the best quality, hand sewn, traditional 16 ounce kilt in either your clan, or an affiliation, tartan. If your clan has more than one tartan, go with the one that is darkest in colour as it will work best for both day and evening wear.

2) Shoes (day wear)-- get a good pair of black dress oxfords, not "wingtips" or "brogues". Expect to pay $150 plus for your shoes, but if you take care of them (put in shoe trees, keep them in cloth shoe bags, and make sure they are always well polished) they will last for decades. Cheap shoes are a false economy.

3) Shoes (evening wear)-- these are the same day wear black dress oxfords. A little extra effort with the shoe polish and you are good to go.

4) Hose (day wear)-- ACBW; stick with darker colours for greater versatility.

5) Hose (evening wear)-- again, this depends on what tie you are wearing. If you are wearing an ordinary necktie then your darkest pair of hose are appropriate. If the event is black tie, then either your darkest pair of hose or deep red are appropriate. For white tie you're stuck-- diced, or Argyll, or tartan hose are required.

6) Sporran (day wear)-- If at all possible, invest in a full-mask muskrat sporran. If this is just too much of a stretch, then buy a fairly plain black leather sporran-- avoid the huge "Rob Roy" sporrans, and those made out of anything "furry".

7) Sporran (evening wear)-- here is where your full-mask muskrat sporran pays off. It is perfectly acceptable for evening wear, and in a pinch can even be worn with white tie.

8) Jacket/waistcoat (day wear)--If you can only afford one jacket, go with a black Argyll jacket with matching five-button waistcoat AND a second, three-button waistcoat like those worn with Prince Charlie coatees. If you can afford two jackets, go with a dark gray jacket with matching waistcoat and the black Argyll combination as already recommended.

9) Jacket/waistcoat (evening wear)-- The black Argyll jacket can be worn with, or without, the five button waistcoat after 6PM just like any other suit jacket. By substituting the three-button waistcoat, and putting on a black bow tie, it can be worn to any formal (black tie) function.

10) Advice? Save your money, and don't buy cheap. Be realistic about what you need-- most gentlemen only require formal attire (black tie) once a year. Starting out it is probably cheaper to rent for the first year or two while you save for what you really want, and need. What is the bare-bones minimum? Your kilt, dark hose, a dark gray day wear jacket and waistcoat, a quality sporran, and, if you don't already have them, a good pair of black leather dress oxfords.

[McMurdo]

Matt
Interesting thread. Here is what I'd say

IDEAL

1. The kilt itself.
I'd have to say a handsewn 8 yard kilt in a tartan that has some meaning to the wearer i.e. your clan tartan. From a reputable kilt maker.


2. Shoes, daywear.
Any comfortable dress shoe

3. Shoes, eveningwear.
Kilties Buckle Brogues or Glenfinnian's from MacKenzie Frain

4. Hose, daywear.
A pair of hose that picks up one of the secondary colours of the tartan, good quality for example the Lewis line from Hawick hose House of Chevot.

5. Hose, eveningwear.
Diced or Argyll hose.

6. Sporran, daywear.
L&M Leather day wear sporran, black or brown, or a Ferguson Britt in your choice of fur or leather.

7. Sporran, eveningwear.
L&M Sealskin sporran, or perhaps a Sealskin sporran from Kinloch Anderson

8. Jacket and/or waistcoat, daywear.
Argyll, or Braemar cuff tweed jacket and waistcoat, from Kinloch Anderson, Geoffrey Tailor or Hector Russell

9. Jacket and/or waistcoat, eveningwear.
I'd say a doublet in velvet from a reputable highland wear shop Kinloch Anderson, Geoffrey Tailor etc.

10. (Because it has to be a round number), your one other piece of personal advice.
I'd say try to present a clean professional appearance even when casual, in my experience if you look like you are supposed to wear it'll be easier for others to accept you wearing a kilt.

BUDGET

1. The kilt itself.
I would say this is the one area not to scrimp on, if you get the best quality you can afford it may well last you the rest of your life and become a family heirloom.

2. Shoes, daywear.
A comfortable pair of Dress Shoes. Probably in your closet already.

3. Shoes, eveningwear.
A pair of Ghillie Brogues or Oxfords whichever you prefer.

4. Hose, daywear.
WBerin hose a very good value in a number of colours.

5. Hose, eveningwear.
I'd again say go ahead and get the Lewis hose they will work wonderfully for formal wear.

6. Sporran, daywear.
There are many sporrans out there at a good price for what you are getting I'd suggest checking out ebay if you are really tight, if you can spend $50-$60 I'd say get a Buzz Kidder.

7. Sporran, eveningwear.
My first dress sporran was from Celtic Croft it is the Economy Chromed Cantle Sporran. I gave it to a friend from the forum who needed a dress sporran, but it really is a great starter sporran.


8. Jacket and/or waistcoat, daywear.
Tweed to my mind would be best, however if you are trying to save money why not get not jacket that will do double duty? In this case I'd say a Black Barathea Argyll jacket and waistcoat with silver buttons. These can be found at several highland wear shops, as well as ebay.

9. Jacket and/or waistcoat, eveningwear.
You could use the same Black Barathea Argyll you are using for daywear. It will be more than appropriate for evening wear.

10. (Because it has to be a round number), your one other piece of personal advice.
Same as for day wear.


Another idea is to look through the 1 kilt 10 looks thread it goes from Casual to White Tie with one kilt and different accessories.

[Jock Scot]

There has been some good ideas floated already and I would not argue with any of them. However there is another way of looking at this, it may not be popular in this modern day and age of instant gratification, but if looked at in the long term it will work out the cheapest way. Gentlemen save your pennies ,wait,save more pennies and wait again. Whilst waiting do your homework and then buy the best. Forget all this cutting corners with cut down this or that, forget the 5 yard cost cutting kilt, forget making do, forget the buying of umpteen kilts, umpteen jackets, umpteen kilt pins, umpteen bonnets, umpteen sporrans, umpteen kilt hose and the list goes on. I am not at all sure the sponsors will like me saying this, but they are in business to sell to us all, whatever they can and as much as they can at a given quality that the customer is prepared to afford-------- that is how they make money and there is nothing wrong with that. But for me, I want to look in my wardrobe and see one or two things that may well be expensive, but I know they are the best and will last many years, decades at least. I do not want to see a wardrobe full of whims and fancies that work out even more expensive than I dare think, in the cold light of day!