I think this place has developed entirely too much angst...

[CooperWallace]

I am also new to this forum, and I have mostly been observing and figuring out the lay of the land. I am currently skimming through the older, closed threads, many of which are informative and/or enjoyable. I am starting to recognize a few forum members and their attitudes. The majority seem to have a desire to be helpful and offer their opinions with the intent to provide a variety of choices. There are however, those who quote rules that were often created by Victorian authorities who were trying to make a living teaching the newly rich how to fit in. Some others vehemently condemn anything new or out of the ordinary. Who cares if a man wears a tartan sash if he is wearing it to acknowledge his heritage? If you don't like it, don't wear it! Last summer, at a highland game, I saw hoards of young men wearing "modern" kilts (which I never understood until then) and some wearing tartan kilts with flip-flops! I was impressed by their youthful enthusiasm, and I thought the flip-flops made sense in the rain! If we are to promote the wearing of the kilt as functional clothing rather than as a ceremonial relic, we need to be accepting of they way other people choose to incorporate the kilt into their personal wardrobe. I am even thinking about buying a polyester kilt! I recently shocked a kilted friend when I told him that I could not see myself wearing a PC, for formal occasions. With great authority, he informed me that I would not be able to attend black tie events in a kilt unless I wore a PC. He was totally unable to accept the concept of other jackets that would be appropriate for formal wear with a kilt, and I think we have all seen several threads on this forum that have provided sensible suggestions. For me, I think a black Argyll jacket, maybe in silk, would suite me! I think I have progressed to a full rant, and I assure you that was not my intent.

I am new as well and have made similar observations about the various personalities on this forum.

As a man, I will wear what I choose to wear. My dignity and respect for others comes from within, not from my attire at the moment.

If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies.... It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it. ~Albert Einstein

[RockyR]

And, finally, most of the "rules" people are concerned with apply most stringently to formal wear. Again, the same is true of non-Highland attire. For casual day dress, people tend to have a lot more leeway in terms of fashion, and can bend or break the fashion rules and not raise an eyebrow. However, the more formal the situation is, the more stingently you'll find fashion rules applied. Many of the so-called "rules" one hears about really only apply for black- or white-tie -- which most of us, admittedly, rarely if ever have to worry about. But when we start applying the same stringency to our casual clothing, we are really going too far.

I think it's good and healthy to find a happy middle ground. Be aware of the fashion rules, but also be aware that they are there simply as a tool to help us look our best, and we are more than free to disagree with them if we so choose. And if I may offer one last personal piece of advice -- I never comment on the way someone else is dressed unless that person specifically asks for my opinion.

I agree with Matt's entire post, but find these last 2 paragraphs VERY well said.

There IS a balance to be struck. Can contemporary kilts and traditional kilts (and outfits) co-exist on one message board OR in 1 man's closet? YES. I wear both 'proper highland dress' AND contemporary kilts, depending on the situation.

Please note that just because a traditionalist points out a 'faux pas' (especially if it's done in a constructive way) that they're not trying to necessarily restrict what you MUST wear. Think of them as the sons / daughters trying to tell ther dad that the Ripped Tshirt and daisy dukes cut offs might not be the thing to wear to their soccer game ("Dad, you'll embarrass me!").

Kelly's own father liked to wear a madress plaid hat with his Hawiian shirt and jeans shorts. Her sisters (in their teen years) have told him on MANY occasions to get back into the house and change.

It's not that 'traditionalists' are necessarily trying to stifle your creativity and sense of connection with Scotland, but are trying to help you look better doing it. To touch back on another thread... Sashes are women's articles of clothing. If someone (a man) wears a mini kilt or a plaid dress and calls it a kilt and they were a friend of yours, would you explain the difference? I would... but then again, I'm the guy would would tell a friend to "blow their nose" if there was something visible (trying to think of a civil way to say that)... not just let them walk around in public like that.

On the flip side... I've worn contemporary kilts with a t-shirt and boots out to the mall, to the grocery store, or to mow the lawn. There's nothing wrong with dressing non-traditional, but there are basic FASHION guidelines that people inside and outside of the kilt world would follow... no hawiian print shirts and paisley ties and striped socks with a tartan kilt. That's just bad fashion sense. Can someone still wear it? Sure. Does that mean they SHOULD? No... I think we can ALL pretty much agree on that.

My point of this rant is this: just b/c someone gives constructive criticism doesn't mean they're trying to stifle your choice of dress... they may be honestly trying to help. Just because someone chooses to wear flat caps with a tartan kilt doesn't make them a bad person.

If you are TRYNIG to 'push the boundaries' of what is good fashion sense and try to wind people up with pictures, don't be surprised if a traditionalist responds. If you're a traditionalist and feel the (uninvited) need to explain to someone why their outfit isn't exactly perfect, don't be surprisd if there's a bit of blowback.

One last thought... there ARE separate forums for 'Traditional Highland Dress' and for 'Contemporary & Non Traditional kilts' where these topics are separated, free from potential scrutiny from one side or the other.

Guys... there's plenty of room for everyone here to politely speak their mind (like the Ladies and Gentlemen of Xmarks that we are) and co-exist. Heck, I've gotten in SEVERAL disagreements with members up here, but I (and they) have always kept it civil and if there was no end to the debate, we politely "Agreed to Disagree" and that was it. So come on in... the water is fine.

[RockyR]

IMHO, when men start stressing out over whether the color of their socks accurately matches one of the three primary colors of the tartan pattern they are wearing...

When men come here asking for advice and walk away seriously worried that they're doing something WRONG and thereby are being BAD PEOPLE by offending hundreds of years of tradition etc. etc. etc.

IMHO...

...we are taking all this stuff way too seriously.

Strap the thing on. The pleats go in back. Put on a shirt, some socks and shoes and go be a man and live your life. Be polite to as many people as you can, ignore those you can't be polite to, speak ill of as few people as you can stomach, love the people you love, stand up for what you believe in and make a positive contribution to society.

IMHO...Nobody is going to give a rip at your funeral, if your pocket hankerchief matched the primary colors of your bluidy tartan, or if the striped thing wrapped around your hips is in the ancient, weathered, muted, or modern colors.

Jeez.

I respectfully offer this thought...

Some men WANT to look good. Some men WANT to match. Some men LIKE to dress 'smart'. Some newbies WANT to dress 'smart' and ARE worried about their appearance. They should feel free to ask questions or seek advice from traditionalists without getting barraged with 'Wear what you want' comments.

Others have a different mindset about clothing... "Strap it on, throw on a tshirt and boots on and get out there" IS A VALID way of looking at it, but it is not the ONLY way to be.

Some people DO "take this stuff too seriously". Others may say that some people "don't take the way they look seriously enough". These are differing opinions and BOTH can co-exist as long as it's recognized that both people have a right to their own opinion.

These are differing opinions. Neither is right or wrong... they're just different.

[Panache]

Here is my two cents


Fashion is an Art

And all Art does have rules (or at least conventions)

The student learns those rules and masters them

The student becomes the artist and must choose where to go with those rules

Now the history of Art is full of rule breakers

Folks like Pablo Picasso, Franz Liszt, Johnny Rotten, David Bowie, Orson Welles, Akira Kurosawa, Jean Genet, Arthur Rimbaud, Claude Monet, Jackson Pollock, and Igor Stravinsky just to name a few.

The funny thing is that boldly breaking a rule in Art can lead you into setting the rules for a whole new discipline.

It can also can lead you straight to looking like an idiot. The History of Art is also full of people that thought outside the box and created absolute rubbish.

To quote David St. Hubbins: “It's such a fine line between stupid, and clever.”

The great thing about XMTS is that we have both staunch traditionalists that are sharing the traditional rules (or conventions) of highland dress as well as modernists who are going out and doing something different and very individualistic. You can take both and create your own look.

The best example of this is of course our own Hamish who knows all the rules of traditional highland dress and can play by them better than anyone I know and still can turn around and look smashing in a leather kilt and boots!

Ham dresses to please himself and when he breaks a rule (convention) of traditional highland dress it is because he chooses to and not through ignorance.

Kilts and highland attire are just clothing and you should wear your clothes, your clothes shouldn't wear you.

But know the rules before you break them!

Cheers

Jamie :ootd:


P.S. I blame Bill for any and all Angst

[Bugbear]

I've dabbled in the art of looking like an idiot, remember the blue vest, and the gardening pictures...

You really can't learn it all in a short time, and you have to keep asking questions etc, and taking the lumps.

Guess that goes for anything.

[macwilkin]

I respectfully offer this thought...

Some men WANT to look good. Some men WANT to match. Some men LIKE to dress 'smart'. Some newbies WANT to dress 'smart' and ARE worried about their appearance. They should feel free to ask questions or seek advice from traditionalists without getting barraged with 'Wear what you want' comments.

Others have a different mindset about clothing... "Strap it on, throw on a tshirt and boots on and get out there" IS A VALID way of looking at it, but it is not the ONLY way to be.

Some people DO "take this stuff too seriously". Others may say that some people "don't take the way they look seriously enough". These are differing opinions and BOTH can co-exist as long as it's recognized that both people have a right to their own opinion.

These are differing opinions. Neither is right or wrong... they're just different.

HEAR, HEAR!

T.

[Strings]

Some men WANT to look good. Some men WANT to match. Some men LIKE to dress 'smart'

There's a term for that... "metro" somethingorother... :P

Just kidding!

*ducks for cover*

[Panache]

There's a term for that... "metro" somethingorother... :P

Just kidding!

*ducks for cover*

Strings,

I believe the term you are looking for is "a well dressed gentleman"



Hopefully there are still a few folks out there that still appreciate one

Cheers

Jamie

[HarborSpringsPiper]

However, I am also cautious because I know that many people take the "Highland dress is a free dress" quote, along with the notion that "there are no rules" as an excuse to throw tradition -- and, I might add, good fashion sense -- completely out the window and to come up with some truly ridiculous stuff.

Ham dresses to please himself and when he breaks a rule (convention) of traditional highland dress it is because he chooses to and not through ignorance.

And I would add that Hamish maintains good fashion sense all the while.

Face it, some have fashion sense, some don't. Some could care less. Having it doesn't make one a fop. Even those with fashion sense don't always agree on what's right or wrong. Sticking with tradition is honestly the easiest path to follow if you care how you look. If you don't care, then it doesn't matter.

[auld argonian]

string,

I believe the term you are looking for is "a well dressed gentleman"



Hopefully there are still a few folks out there that still appreciate one

Cheers

Jamie

I appreciate that but I'll suggest that it sometimes gets to be almost obsessive behaviour for some people. There's a certain point after which dressing well or neatly becomes too time and money intensive and becomes more of an affectation than a characteristic. I've met more than one person who refers to their articles of clothing by the designer's name...my Armani, my Hugo Boss. This has become a cultural thing and I think that part of what Alan is trying to get across is that you shouldn't feel such pressure to meet some abstract standard that it makes you feel inadequate.

Best

AA