formal evening dress: vest or no?

[auld argonian]

It's sort of ironic that those of us who choose to attend formal events in our Scottish finery should be so concerned about adhering to a strict code of dress...I've been to several formal events (none of them Scottish...no St. Andrew's or Burns events) lately and it's open season on what's fair for formalwear out there. There's the larger number of men who at wear proper formalwear with some variations and then there are the types who project the impression that they're just too busy or too rich to bother with such things and show up in a suit and tie.

Best

AA

[davidlpope]

It's sort of ironic that those of us who choose to attend formal events in our Scottish finery should be so concerned about adhering to a strict code of dress...

Hmmm...Here's a slightly different take on it:

Most folks in the US generally know what a tuxedo is, even if they don't own one or wear one much. They also know that one doesn't wear a tuxedo to a baseball game, or to a morning wedding, or to a picnic at the fairgrounds. Additionally, unless one is attempting to make a "fashion statement", you don't wear a tuxedo jacket with a pair of blue jeans, or a t-shirt. Even folks who have only worn evening attire for their high school prom intuitively know these conventions because they have been exposed to evening wear in movies, etc. So, people accept that tuxedo = "fancy, formal, special occasions", not general wear.

Generally, those same folks in the US have not been exposed to Highland formal dress. They don't have the same intuitive sense of what is proper and what is not. I've seen Prince Charlie coatees (the equivalent of a tuxedo/ dinner jacket) worn with golf shirts, open neck polo shirts, even t-shirts. I've seen them worn at Highland Games in the middle of the day in 95+ degree weather.

My theory is this: When these well-meaning, but confused, folks do this, it's because they don't look at a Prince Charlie coatee and think, "That's a formal jacket to wear with my kilt for black tie events." Instead they look at a PC and think, "That's the sort of jacket that one is supposed to wear when one wears a kilt." So, when the local Highland games rolls around, this fellow dons his Prince Charlie coatee, because "well, this is what one wears with a kilt."

So, a set of "rules" that substitutes for the sort of knowledge one should "intuitively" know from being immersed in a particular culture is a good thing. That doesn't mean that once one understands these conventions that there isn't room for individual tastes and style.

Cordially,

David

[Zardoz]

I've seen Prince Charlie coatees (the equivalent of a tuxedo/ dinner jacket) worn with golf shirts, open neck polo shirts, even t-shirts. I've seen them worn at Highland Games in the middle of the day in 95+ degree weather.

My theory is this: When these well-meaning, but confused, folks do this, it's because they don't look at a Prince Charlie coatee and think, "That's a formal jacket to wear with my kilt for black tie events." Instead they look at a PC and think, "That's the sort of jacket that one is supposed to wear when one wears a kilt." So, when the local Highland games rolls around, this fellow dons his Prince Charlie coatee, because "well, this is what one wears with a kilt."

David

I think David is on the money with this reasoning. The difference in my mind of a regular 'kilt wearer' who wears it as much as he can, as opposed to a 'kilt owner' who sees it as a costume. I've seen the same sort of things, full on PC outfit during the day at the games, PC jacket over a pirate shirt at renfair etc...

I call this the "I paid for this outfit, I'm gonna wear it" syndrome; these fellows bought that rig for some event, wedding, Burns upper, etc., and now any time there is a "kilt thing" they drag it all out and put it on, many of them only once or twice a year. Most of them view it as a costume, the idea of the kilt with other types of clothes/levels of dress doesn't occur to them. I know I've heard that attitude from 'non-kiltwearers' before, I read a post on a menswear forum where a guy complained about a kiltie at his church, saying; "He had on a kilt and those socks, but not the rest of the outfit, just a shirt and tie".

Another 'subset' of this is the "I paid for this outfit, I'm gonna wear it, even if it doesn't fit anymore" syndrome; This one is in evidence at Burns suppers and other formal events around the world, when they drag it all out and put it on once a year, even though they've gained 20+ pounds since they bought the thing. Y'all know what I mean, thats when you see that expanse of white shirted belly between the top of the too tight kilt and PC/waistcoat. That's actually a time when the PC and belt/waistplate might be the better option, (and to be honest, when I see the P/C - belt combo, I assume this is the case) but of course some of those belts don't have a lot of adjustment either!

[creagdhubh]

I think David is on the money with this reasoning. The difference in my mind of a regular 'kilt wearer' who wears it as much as he can, as opposed to a 'kilt owner' who sees it as a costume. I've seen the same sort of things, full on PC outfit during the day at the games, PC jacket over a pirate shirt at renfair etc...

I call this the "I paid for this outfit, I'm gonna wear it" syndrome; these fellows bought that rig for some event, wedding, Burns upper, etc., and now any time there is a "kilt thing" they drag it all out and put it on, many of them only once or twice a year. Most of them view it as a costume, the idea of the kilt with other types of clothes/levels of dress doesn't occur to them. I know I've heard that attitude from 'non-kiltwearers' before, I read a post on a menswear forum where a guy complained about a kiltie at his church, saying; "He had on a kilt and those socks, but not the rest of the outfit, just a shirt and tie".

Another 'subset' of this is the "I paid for this outfit, I'm gonna wear it, even if it doesn't fit anymore" syndrome; This one is in evidence at Burns suppers and other formal events around the world, when they drag it all out and put it on once a year, even though they've gained 20+ pounds since they bought the thing. Y'all know what I mean, thats when you see that expanse of white shirted belly between the top of the too tight kilt and PC/waistcoat. That's actually a time when the PC and belt/waistplate might be the better option, (and to be honest, when I see the P/C - belt combo, I assume this is the case) but of course some of those belts don't have a lot of adjustment either!

Well said mate.