formal evening dress: vest or no?

[CMcG]

I'm wondering about vests (a.k.a. waistcoats) or lack thereof worn with the Prince Charlie and jackets/doublets of similar distinction: Brian Boru, Regulation, Spencer, Eton, Mess? The context would be formal evening wear, which in my neck of the woods is black tie/tuxedo equivalent.

In Charles Thompson's So You're Going to Wear the Kilt! he suggests that a black leather belt with shiny waist-plate is as appropriate as a 3 button vest (not both together) with a PC and black bow-tie. I've also seen pictures showing 5 button waistcoats worn with cravats/Ascots, with the extra height of the vest accommodating the length needing to be tucked in. From what I've gathered thus far, this gives three options for the PC or its approximate equivalents:
1. 3 button vest with bow-tie
2. 5 button vest with cravat
3. belt and waist-plate with bow-tie

If Thompson and the retail/rental catalogues are attempting to provide theory, what is the practice?

Which configuration do you prefer and why?

Pictures are most welcome!

[CMcG]

1. 3 button vest with bow-tie (this one seems most common)



2. 5 button vest with cravat (a newer look)



3. belt and waist-plate with bow-tie (less common despite Thompson)

[CMcG]

And here's my take. I'm leaning towards no vest... but I have my eye on one that's onsale just to have the option...

[JSFMACLJR]

There also is another alternative: neither waistcoat not belt. Quite a few prefer this, and in warmer climes it makes good sense.

[Bugbear]

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot. And I don't know about the cravat.

I suppose as long as there is some kind of waist cover it would be ok from what I have read on black tie atire.

[xman]

If the unkilted n00b can throw in here ...

There's something about a tucked shirt that seems to demand a belt to break the line. It just looks cleaner.

A waistcoat is my preference though.

[JSFMACLJR]

[McMurdo]

When I purchased my Prince Charlie, it came with the three button waistcoat, I see no reason to wear a 5 button waistcoat with the PC as that look to me is neither fish nor fowl. I do prefer a doublet for most any occasion these days, the only exception I can think of would be an SCD ball or somewhere were there would be so much dancing that my Montrose would become far too hot.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

5 button vest with cravat

In my opinion this is a look "Best Avoided"-- and here's why:

The design and cut of a Prince Charlie is intended to be worn with a three button waistcoat, which comes up to the bottom of the lapel. For a five button waistcoat to work with the design of the garment, the lapels would have to be much, much, shorter.

Aside from the design aspect, there is another consideration which should be borne in mind-- formal attire requires a bow tie. It doesn't matter what one sees on the red carpets at the MTV awards, or worn by anorexic models on the catwalks of Milan. Formal attire is about an adherence to tradition, not trying to look trendy.

The photo above also illustrates why a belt should not be worn with a kilt-- while that above it points out why charcoal gray isn't considered appropriate for formal attire-- it looks "confused", and in a room of predominately black formal jackets it will stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, making the wearer look as if he's in a gray suit rather than in formal attire.

As far as the ruche ties/cravats are concerned... as Mr. Blackwell used to say, "Those are so last, last year..."

[davidlpope]

I think you should wear a PC with a bowtie and either a waistbelt OR a 3-button waistcoat. The belt looks better, to me, on men that are short and stocky, the waistcoat better on taller men. I think the broad expanse of white shirtfront on a taller man is prone to looking untidy.

My advice- Don't wear a 5-button waistcoat with a PC, don't wear a waistcoat with a belt, don't wear a four-in-hand tie or "ruche" tie with a PC or doublet, and don't wear a tartan bowtie or necktie with a kilt.

Cordially,

David