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11th October 10, 06:31 AM
#1
There is absolutely nothing wrong with wearing the waistcoat(vest) with your PC(assuming it is a low cut 3 buttoned one), many would say you were undressed without it. For me, I prefer the waistcoat rather than the belt and if it were me, I would forget the plaid under any and all circumstances, but just so you know, because you are wearing a waistcoat(if you so choose) the wearing of the plaid does not make your PC and black tie any more ,or less, formal than wearing a dress belt instead.
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11th October 10, 06:48 AM
#2
Drac: Cumberbun (crumb catcher) pleats are always up. Learned to remember it because of that word.
I've found that most relationships work best when no one wears pants.
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11th October 10, 05:03 PM
#3
 Originally Posted by Bill aka Mole
Drac: Cumberbun (crumb catcher) pleats are always up.  Learned to remember it because of that word.
The more gentlemanly explanation for the pleats facing up is to hold the Opera or Theatre tickets for the gent and his lady.
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12th October 10, 07:07 AM
#4
The World Turned Up-side Down?
 Originally Posted by EHCAlum
The more gentlemanly explanation for the pleats facing up is to hold the Opera or Theatre tickets for the gent and his lady.
Early on in the colonization of India British officers took to wearing cummerbunds as part of their uniform. Long worn by the native Indians, the cummerbund was useful for holding an extra brace of pistols back in the day when an officer carried two single shot pistols in holsters hung from the pommel of his saddle. To prevent the pistols from becoming snagged in the cummerbund the pleats faced up, allowing for a smooth and rapid draw.
As the Indian Army was the the first to adopt mess dress uniforms (with abbreviated coats in deference to the heat) it was only natural that the cummerbund-- a distinctive item of Indian army dress-- would replace the waistcoat. Officers returning home from India on leave would wear their mess dress uniforms on board ship, and the cummerbund soon caught on with civilians who had been "out East".
Interestingly, U.S. Army regulations stipulate that the pleats of the cummerbund face down.
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12th October 10, 07:18 AM
#5
 Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown
Interestingly, U.S. Army regulations stipulate that the pleats of the cummerbund face down.
Didn't know the history of the cummerbund, except it had eastern origins. Of course the Army is different from standard form. Its the Army.
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12th October 10, 08:22 AM
#6
Of course the Army is different: it's the Army! (Just a little interservice rivalry joke!)
Just to be different, I would suggest wearing the belt and waist plate as I find them to be very sharp looking and comfortable as well. I don't much care for the waistcoat with the PC, even though I have one and wear it occassionally. I have just come to prefer the look of the belt and lots of white shirt, similar the look of a tux with cumberbund.
The minimedals on a PC look very distinguished to me, and do indeed distinguish the veterean from the non-veterans. It is, of course, the wearer's option, but especially at a military ball, one is well advised and properly dressed with one's mini medals in place. When the event is intended to be one in which the attendees are in their best finery, minimedlas are in order if the wearer chooses--not required, but certainly appropriate.
I also have no problems with the wearing of fraternal medals if desired. I wear both an EGA and/or a square-and-compass almost always, whether I am in a suit or ridng a Harley. There are very fine pieces of jewelry available from my fraternity, and I imagine others also have appropriate medals.
I don't think anyone was actually offended by Detroitpete's comments, but "garish" and "doorman" and "deposed dictoator" do tend to rankel the veteran who is quite rightly proud of his service. I rarely wear any kind of military medal anymore--maybe to the Marine Corps Ball if I go--but I applaud those who do. Besides, the real heroes make my paltry array look rather insignificant. 
Finally, I agree that black hose are the lesser of the possible choices. A good navy blue with red garters or flashes always look nice for evening attire, but red or green work well, too. Just be sure to show us pictures.
Jim Killman
Writer, Philosopher, Teacher of English and Math, Soldier of Fortune, Bon Vivant, Heart Transplant Recipient, Knight of St. Andrew (among other knighthoods)
Freedom is not free, but the US Marine Corps will pay most of your share.
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12th October 10, 08:39 AM
#7
 Originally Posted by thescot
Of course the Army is different: it's the Army!  (Just a little interservice rivalry joke!)
I also have no problems with the wearing of fraternal medals if desired. I wear both an EGA and/or a square-and-compass almost always, whether I am in a suit or ridng a Harley. There are very fine pieces of jewelry available from my fraternity, and I imagine others also have appropriate medals.
Same here, I almost always wear the 50 year old square and compass pin my coach present me when I was raised, or a roman eagle and triangle.
Navy is good, or perhaps a midnight blue or a dark purple?
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12th October 10, 09:18 AM
#8
 Originally Posted by MacMillan of Rathdown
Early on in the colonization of India British officers took to wearing cummerbunds as part of their uniform. Long worn by the native Indians, the cummerbund was useful for holding an extra brace of pistols back in the day when an officer carried two single shot pistols in holsters hung from the pommel of his saddle. To prevent the pistols from becoming snagged in the cummerbund the pleats faced up, allowing for a smooth and rapid draw.
As the Indian Army was the the first to adopt mess dress uniforms (with abbreviated coats in deference to the heat) it was only natural that the cummerbund-- a distinctive item of Indian army dress-- would replace the waistcoat. Officers returning home from India on leave would wear their mess dress uniforms on board ship, and the cummerbund soon caught on with civilians who had been "out East".
Interestingly, U.S. Army regulations stipulate that the pleats of the cummerbund face down.
And to further Rathdown's second paragraph, there is still "Red Sea Rig":
"The voyage was uneventful. I can recall the humid heat of the tropics and the Red sea and the discomfort of mess dress - Red Sea rig - white shirt with epaulettes and long blue trousers with a black scarf as a cummerbund - stifling!"
-- http://samilitaryhistory.org/diaries/nat5.html
http://www.royalmarinesbands.co.uk/r...nRedsearig.htm
T.
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12th October 10, 11:33 AM
#9
Hear, Hear, JSFMacL!
I agree wholeheartedly about black hose being nearly as bad as white. Drac, if you are going to wear Lamont, why not invest in a pair of blue and black diced hose from the Scottish Tartans Museum? They are custom done so probably not available in time for this year's ball, but I think they'd be very sharp indeed.
Some take the high road and some take the low road. Who's in the gutter? MacLowlife
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