Another protectionist kilt article from "The Scotsman"

[O'Callaghan]

So let me get this right. Canadian chedder isn't really chedder cheese because it's not made in Chedder?

The rule is that English Cheddar must be from Cheddar Gorge, but British Cheddar can be from anywhere in the UK, and the same cheese from other countries must be identified by country of origin, e.g. Canadian Cheddar, Irish Cheddar, etc. So, for example, cheddar from England but not from Cheddar Gorge must be labelled British Cheddar, and not English Cheddar, just as if it were from Wales or Scotland. Canadian Cheddar is Canadian Cheddar, full stop (period) and must be labelled as such.

[SteveB]

At the local vendor of age restricted beverages...
Whisky = Product of Scotland
Whiskey = Products outwith of Scotland.
I guess they got that one right.

Every year that I have attended the Highland Games here, I have found that there are vendors of various "kilts"

Vendor of hand sewn made to measurewool tartan kilts. Plenty of Swatch books, a display of sample products, a display of kilt accessories. His tent is almost exclusively Scot manufactured, originated, packaged product. Some outwith Scotland, but still of the U.K.

Vendor of Tartan kilts made in Scotland. Hand sewn in one price range, machine/hand in another range. Uses various mills of wool. sells kilt accessories, that include kilt pins, cap badges, and buckles made outside the U.K. All products clearly display the place of manufacture.

Vendor of tartan kilts, that are all off the peg. 24" drop only. "designed in Scotland" of a mystery fabric and also sells almost any object that has room enough for a Saltire sticker to placed somewhere on it as "Scottish" goods. Nowhere is there a place of origin label to be found.

Vendor of Utilikilts. Plainly advertised as made in U.S.A. for the American Man.

A booth of several kiltmakers that hand sew kilts in the traditional manner, most with swatch books and a "fact sheet" listing names and contact information of their recent customers. Some specializing in box pleat, some in knife pleat and others also interested in sewing for the younger males of the family. (Adjustable pleats, and adjustable hem designed for the fast growing boy.)


When it comes time for me to part with my Greenbacks or Sterling, it will be with the vendors that honestly display their products. After several years the vendors of quality proudly displayed have grown in the materials they show and SELL. The vendors of the mystery materials seem to be setting up smaller and smaller each year as they are taking most of their product with them when they leave. The marketplace seems to be working very well.

Slainte

[BoldHighlander]

At the local vendor of age restricted beverages...
Whisky = Product of Scotland
Whiskey = Products outwith of Scotland.
I guess they got that one right.

I thought that was the case too, Steve, until I saw this thread, of a trip to this American distillery, then I got really confused

[Burly Brute]

Considering I am the owner of a kilt (purchased 3 weeks ago, not my own tartan) and that I have been a member on here for about 3 days, I feel that I have the authority to offer my two cents. Haha.

I definately agree with the label deal for online stuff especially, I REALLY dont want to order anything, ever, ever, online. I HATE IT! ( i have to sometimes).

As for the other stuff, I know I went to the store several times before I made my purchase, researched what I could online, and then lucked out and got it on sale because the owner decided to close the shop for personal issues. To me, I think it would be nice if they could manufacture a decent kilt, maybe on assembly line or what have you, and at an affordable price. If every kilt maker, whether Scot or not, just took pride in their work it wouldnt be an issue.

And then there is the aspect of actually getting to feel, look, and try it on in person. That helped sway my purchase. I think even a novice such as my self can tell whether its a light cotton with 4 pleats or not! haha.

I dont know, its tough. I envy all of you with far more knowledge than I on the subject, but like I said...i hate online...haha.

Maybe they need a label that says, "please visit xmarksthescot.com prior to purchase"

-Zach

[McClef]

At the local vendor of age restricted beverages...
Whisky = Product of Scotland
Whiskey = Products outwith of Scotland.
I guess they got that one right.

Here in the UK Whiskey (with the e) would indicate that it was an Irish product.

Others would be spelt Whisky but still have to indicate their country of origin. Only Whisky from Scotland may display "Scotch Whisky" on the label.

[Jock Scot]

Here in the UK Whiskey (with the e) would indicate that it was an Irish product.

Others would be spelt Whisky but still have to indicate their country of origin. Only Whisky from Scotland may display "Scotch Whisky" on the label.

Precisely! And we have gone full circle. What I take Mr Hawthorne to say is why not have a label saying "Scots kilt" meaning the same thing as "Scotch Whisky" and having the same legal meanings and sanctions. The non Scotch whisky producers from around the world---even China I gather, whilst perhaps not liking the distinction seem to get by perfectly well. Why not the same with kilts?

[RockyR]

Precisely! And we have gone full circle. What I take Mr Hawthorne to say is why not have a label saying "Scots kilt" meaning the same thing as "Scotch Whisky" and having the same legal meanings and sanctions. The non Scotch whisky producers from around the world---even China I gather, whilst perhaps not liking the distinction seem to get by perfectly well. Why not the same with kilts?

Yes, but what SHOULD the criteria be for a "Scots Kilt"? How "Scots" is enough to get that label? Should it be 100% of Scottish product? 90%? 50%?

I'm interested to hear your take on it, Jock. I think we agree that there could be a "Scots Kilt" label, but what would define it is would probably take issue with Mr. Hawthorne.

[Jock Scot]

RockyR.

Well over the years I have grown and sold a few thousand of tons of English malting barley into the Scotch Whisky trade, so I suppose one can't be too precise about these things.The bottle could be made from recycled glass from all over the world, the label could be printed in Taiwan, using Dutch paper and Italian ink, the cork(do we still have corks?) came from France, Spain, or I think Greece and of course the whisky(Scotch) is matured, when required, in Spanish sherry barrels, Portuguese port barrels or American bourbon ones. So it is difficult to be too precise, particularly as I am not a legal wallah.

As to kilts------- humm let's see. Okay off the top of my head, to get the "Scots kilt " tag I would expect, without exception, for the kilt to be made in Scotland, I think that I would expect that the cloth should be made in Scotland(I might have to adjust that a tad), but for the moment I will let it ride at that.

Now that leaves plenty of room for the non bespoke trade and that also leaves room for non wool fabrics to still qualify as a "Scots kilt" and that should give those that don't want or need a bespoke kilt to find something cheaper if they choose. Customers for the kilt, of course, still have the option of buying from the world if they so choose, too.The world kilt makers are happy to buy cloth to make kilts, from Scotland and other places from around the world so there really will not be much change there then.

Well that is the best I can do in a few minutes any way!

To their credit, there are many kiltmakers from outwith Scotland(some who contribute on this website)who make no secret of the fact that they make kilts to Scottish designs with Scottish cloth and Scottish tartans, BUT NOT ONCE, that I recall, have they ever claimed to sell a truely Scottish kilt made in Scotland. The Quallity of their work speaks for itself and they are justly proud of their nationality and I have no doubt that they will have nothing to fear from some sort of kilt legislation in Scotland. Should such an event ever happen, of course.

[CMcG]

Yes, but what SHOULD the criteria be for a "Scots Kilt"? How "Scots" is enough to get that label? Should it be 100% of Scottish product? 90%? 50%?

<snip>

I imagine that a legal designation of "Scots Kilt" would follow the precedent of the most current Scotch Whisky Regulations (2009). I'm posting the link to the entire act but I'll quote the text of the definition here too.

Notice that it doesn't say other whisk(e)y isn't whisk(e)y. It just stakes out what Scotch Whisky is.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2.../contents/made

Definition of “Scotch Whisky” and categories of Scotch Whisky

3.—(1) In these Regulations “Scotch Whisky” means a whisky produced in Scotland—

(a)that has been distilled at a distillery in Scotland from water and malted barley (to which only whole grains of other cereals may be added) all of which have been—

(i)processed at that distillery into a mash;

(ii)converted at that distillery into a fermentable substrate only by endogenous enzyme systems; and

(iii)fermented at that distillery only by the addition of yeast;

(b)that has been distilled at an alcoholic strength by volume of less than 94.8 per cent so that the distillate has an aroma and taste derived from the raw materials used in, and the method of, its production;

(c)that has been matured only in oak casks of a capacity not exceeding 700 litres;

(d)that has been matured only in Scotland;

(e)that has been matured for a period of not less than three years;

(f)that has been matured only in an excise warehouse or a permitted place;

(g)that retains the colour, aroma and taste derived from the raw materials used in, and the method of, its production and maturation;

(h)to which no substance has been added, or to which no substance has been added except—

(i)water;

(ii)plain caramel colouring; or

(iii)water and plain caramel colouring; and

(i)that has a minimum alcoholic strength by volume of 40%.

(2) In these Regulations—

“Single Malt Scotch Whisky” means a Scotch Whisky that has been distilled in one or more batches—
(a)at a single distillery;
(b)from water and malted barley without the addition of any other cereals; and
(c)in pot stills;
“Single Grain Scotch Whisky” means a Scotch Whisky that has been distilled at a single distillery except—
(a)Single Malt Scotch Whisky; or
(b)a Blended Scotch Whisky;
“Blended Malt Scotch Whisky” means a blend of two or more Single Malt Scotch Whiskies that have been distilled at more than one distillery;“Blended Grain Scotch Whisky” means a blend of two or more Single Grain Scotch Whiskies that have been distilled at more than one distillery; and“Blended Scotch Whisky” means a blend of one or more Single Malt Scotch Whiskies with one or more Single Grain Scotch Whiskies.

[Nighthawk]

RockyR.

To their credit, there are many kiltmakers from outwith Scotland(some who contribute on this website)who make no secret of the fact that they make kilts to Scottish designs with Scottish cloth and Scottish tartans, BUT NOT ONCE, that I recall, have they ever claimed to sell a truely Scottish kilt made in Scotland. The Quallity of their work speaks for itself and they are justly proud of their nationality and I have no doubt that they will have nothing to fear from some sort of kilt legislation in Scotland.

See, this is the problem as I see it. A system labeling this as a Scottish kilt and that as not will hurt kilt makers outside of Scotland. At this point, a Newsome or USA Kilt is seen as a genuine kilt. We come up with a "Genuine Scottish Kilt" label, and all of a sudden, Barb Tewksberry will no longer be seen as making "genuine" kilts. Now myself, I would go the opposite direction and buy from no one other than American kilt makers if such a system came into existance, because at this point, I see us as a global community and I support that community. However, if such a legislated system were to pass, it would become an "us" and "them" issue- and I will support "us." However, there are a lot who won't- there are a lot of people who will want what they now perceive as "the real thing" and not some imitation. It seems to me that there are a lot of good, reputable kilt makers who's business will be hurt. I'm really interested to see what Rocky or Matt have to say on this issue, as well.