Another protectionist kilt article from "The Scotsman"

[Lallans]

You'd be surprised what makes "made in the USA" jeans actually "made the the USA." I believe, if the law hasn't changed, that the jeans are often largely made in Mexico or elsewhere, and the installation of the zipper (which is the step that makes them jeans) is done in the USA.

Perhaps my info is obsolete, but in my teens and 20s- and 30s too- it was USA all the way. What in fact killed the blue jean as a fashion staple was probably when designer brands came on the market. They were horrible but people felt they had to have them anyway- and then moved on. But this should never happen with kilts because the market is too knowledgeable.

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps my info is obsolete, but in my teens and 20s- and 30s too- it was USA all the way. What in fact killed the blue jean as a fashion staple was probably when designer brands came on the market. They were horrible but people felt they had to have them anyway- and then moved on. But this should never happen with kilts because the market is too knowledgeable.

With the greatest of respect I think that we on this website have a pretty good idea what makes a kilt particularly after a month or two. Sadly, there are far more potential kilt buyers out there who have no idea what they are buying and unfortunately they are the ones who get caught. How many times do we get new members saying that they wished that they had known about this website before parting with a wad of Dollars in Princess Street on some substandard piece of junk. Their disappointment is more than obvious.

I quite accept that a cheap and cheerful kilt does have its uses for some sort of rough and tumble occasion and yes, they are a start for some too. For those that have bought the same garment thinking they had the real thing that will see them through formal events in style for a life time, have been done-----------well---------an injustice.

[Lallans]

With the greatest of respect I think that we on this website have a pretty good idea what makes a kilt particularly after a month or two. Sadly, there are far more potential kilt buyers out there who have no idea what they are buying and unfortunately they are the ones who get caught. How many times do we get new members saying that they wished that they had known about this website before parting with a wad of Dollars in Princess Street on some substandard piece of junk. Their disappointment is more than obvious.

I quite accept that a cheap and cheerful kilt does have its uses for some sort of rough and tumble occasion and yes, they are a start for some too. For those that have bought the same garment thinking they had the real thing that will see them through formal events in style for a life time, have been done-----------well---------an injustice.

Perhaps what we can hope for is that someone who buys such an inferior kilt thinking it's a good one will eventually become informed and move on to one from a real kiltmaker, one who does provide the desired quality- in the same way that realtors here sell "starter homes" with the full expectation that the buyer will be back for more and better.

[wildrover]

Mr. Hawthorne is angry, and IMHO opinion rightfully so, that cheap junk can be passed off as Scottish to unsuspecting tourists and ill-informed natives.

All you need is a country of origin label.

At any rate, if it said "Made in Scotland", I would assume that the fabric might have been woven in Scotland, maybe, and that the thread, leather, buckles, etc. were from Eastern Durkistan, and that everything had been pre-pleated, pre-assembled, and pre-packaged in a small sweatshop in Krblkistan before being sent to Scotland to have a "Made In Scotland" tag attached, the act of which would likely satisfy some legal requirement to have final assembly done in-country to be legally entitled to said label.

...Because that is how the world works, these days. Make an end run around the legal issues, find the cheapest source of production and labor, and sell it on the shelf most people can't quite reach, so everyone else will think it's classy and want one to show off.

He can say whatever he wants, I will have other kilts in the future, and I will get them wherever I see fit, and they will be of the best quality I can afford, and they will not have three stinking buckles because that third buckle would be sitting at the bottom of a creek by now if my kilt were so equipped. Finally, if there's eventually some international legal pronouncement from Brussels, I will suggest that they can go make me some waffles, and I will get a whitelabel from the underground kiltmakers' syndicate!

Formal occasions only, my kilted ***.

[tripleblessed]

re Rocky's comment about Steve's handling of the forum, I find it impressive
that in this day of overhype and spam marketing, Steve does not attempt to
"outsize" other ads or bombard us with sales pitches. Many would attempt
to use the forum as a bully pulpit, and that would destroy the genteel nature that draws people here.

[RockyR]

re Rocky's comment about Steve's handling of the forum, I find it impressive
that in this day of overhype and spam marketing, Steve does not attempt to
"outsize" other ads or bombard us with sales pitches. Many would attempt
to use the forum as a bully pulpit, and that would destroy the genteel nature that draws people here.

I completely agree. I don't think Steve, as an advertiser / kiltmaker AND the forum owner, gets enough credit for his restraint.

I also don't know if the general forum member knows how much he DOES protect the 'uneducated newbie' by only allowing reputable advertisers up here and by keeping the "trolling for business" to a minimum. He also fosters an environment where "traditional" kiltmakers and "contemorary" kiltmakers (and loads of categories in between) can all post up here and respect each other's opinions.

Back to the topic at hand...

[muirkirkca]

There have been a lot of interesting points made. Mr. Hawthorne has a point and should engage the appropriate professional group to come up with the best and most suitable Scottish branding and labeling for the kilt and associated accessories crafted in Scotland.

I wouldn't want to limit the product as being 8 yds. etc. etc.just to give some flexibility in marketing to the broader world.

[RockyR]

With the greatest of respect I think that we on this website have a pretty good idea what makes a kilt particularly after a month or two. Sadly, there are far more potential kilt buyers out there who have no idea what they are buying and unfortunately they are the ones who get caught. How many times do we get new members saying that they wished that they had known about this website before parting with a wad of Dollars in Princess Street on some substandard piece of junk. Their disappointment is more than obvious.

I quite accept that a cheap and cheerful kilt does have its uses for some sort of rough and tumble occasion and yes, they are a start for some too. For those that have bought the same garment thinking they had the real thing that will see them through formal events in style for a life time, have been done-----------well---------an injustice.

And on THAT point, we completely agree. As a retailer, I can say that the "US Market" really is not very well informed on their kilt purchase before making the purchase. They see something labeled "Kilt", trust the salesperson and buy it. Now, there ARE those who do their research first, and kudos to them. There are those who buy their first kilt and "learn" from the experience and then purchase a better one second.

I honestly believe that an educated consumer is a happy customer. That's one of the reasons we try to describe the product(s) in detail on our site. It's the reason we have a "which kilt is right for me" guide page. It's the reason we have an "important things to consider [before purchasing a kilt]" page.

If the customer just trusts the salesperson implicitly to steer them in the right direction, they can easily be mislead by disreputable salesmen.

I am happy to say that Steve (forum owner) does a GERAT job only allowing 'reputable companies' on Xmarks. Kudos to him for helping to steer people in the right direction and for running a site to help educate people (even if we members sometimes disagree on the lessons being taught).

[denmcdough]

If there is to transpire a "Scottish Kilt" label, will the consumer know that it was made entirely in Scotland???

Case in point: Lets take bicycles, as I know that area very well. The heart of the bicycle world has been Italy, for ages, but the trend has been toward carbon fiber bikes, away from steel, and that leads one to China and Taiwan, as Europe does not have quite the capacity to do carbon fiber work as does the two previous mentioned countries; not to mention cheap labor. Many Italian carbon fiber bikes, now, are produced in the far east, but if a small percentage of the finish work is done in Italy, then they can stamp on it..."Made In Italy!" Yes, this is true, and there's an international trade law allowing this practice. So, will a Scottish kilt be the same way? Food for thought!

Many intricacies need to be ironed out before this label thing can mean a pound of beans!