Sihk kirpan controversy in Quebec

[Jack Daw]

Some Sikhs wear a miniature kirpan attached to the comb in their hair or on a necklace, which satisfies the religious requirement. Kirpans are worn as a symbol of the need to prevent violence by being prepared to intercede rather than standing by when violence occurs. It seems that the solution is fairly simple. Sikhs are required to wear a kirpan (though many secular Sikhs do not), but they do not need to be functional weapons.

I have a Sikh friend who wears a tiny kirpan on a necklace. He said it's small enough not to set off the metal detector at the airport.

[xman]

The saga continues ...

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/st...n-measure.html

[Kilted Canadian]

I think the main problem here is that a good number of Sikhs do indeed carry functional kirpans, which could be easily used as a weapon. One was displayed by a Sikh during an interview on CBC News, and it looked to have a blade of 4-5 inches long, and it was undoubtedly a knife in design, with minimal ornamentation. This was not a small hair ornament worn solely to satsify a religious requirement.

Also, there was in incident several years ago where a Sikh student was found to have used his Kirpan to threaten several classmates in a Montreal school, which likely did nothing to improve the situation, despite the protests of his mother that he could not have simply drawn the weapon, as it was fully wrapped and tucked into his waistband.

The fact that the boy took such measures to draw a weapon on his classmates disturbs me greatly, as does the carrying of any weapon in a governmental or public building by non-government personell( ie RCMP, OPP, CF, etc).

Mind you, I have no problem with the kirpan when worn as shown previously. The issue only arises when it becomes a functional weapon that can be drawn and used. Even though the masses of Sikhs would never do such a thing, one must always be wary for the exception to the rule.

[Dale Seago]

I think the main problem here is that a good number of Sikhs do indeed carry functional kirpans, which could be easily used as a weapon.

And other things.

Some years ago I and my then-wife (whom I trained up to 8th-degree black belt level in the Bujinkan) were as volunteers providing training assistance in patrolling tactics and self-defense to a neighborhood-watch group in San Francisco's Haight-Ashbury district called "Residents Against Drugs", or "RAD". During the course of this we of course went out on patrol with them quite a few nights.

One night a Sikh couple (man & wife) approached our team and thanked us for being there and for the work we were doing. I & my wife glanced at each other, nodded to each other, and I asked them, "Hey, could we talk to you guys over here away from the group for a minute?"

Out of earshot of the team, we introduced ourselves and I handed them my card. I told them we also appreciated THEM being around for the safety of their community, and assured them that neither I nor my wife had any problem with the fact that they were carrying concealed firearms; nor would we tell anyone.

Their eyes widened and they were speechless for a bit; then the husband simply thanked us.

Some months after that they got in touch with us (had my card, remember?) and we got together for a wonderful dinner. We explained the things that had tipped us off -- which, frankly, most law enforcement professionals would not have picked up -- showed them how they could do it better, etc. That being a night when we were not in any sort of "under public scrutiny" role, as I recall we also showed them what we were carrying, which definitely trumped their own stuff.

BTW, I and my ex have both been in positions where, though civilians, we were legally "carrying firearms for a living". I ain't sayin' whether or not this was one of those occasions, but I did want to mention that.

[Lallans]

In our national news today is the information that kirpans are now finally and officially banned from the Quebec legislature. There is a comment from the house leader that while multiculturalism may be practiced in Canada it is not a policy in Quebec. Point finale! (Quebec french for that's it, period!)

[CMcG]

As an experiment, it would be interesting for someone to kilt up and go to the Quebec legislature with a sgian brew (or other sgian don't) in their hose. I'd like to see if the security would stop the person with the assumption that it was actually a sgian dubh.

This would allow us to determine a couple related things while preventing the investigator from any legal repercussions.

1) Is it a no knife policy or a no kirpan policy?
2) How is Scottish heritage officially perceived to fit into Quebec i.e. could it be no knives except for the sgian dubh?

[Lallans]

As an experiment, it would be interesting for someone to kilt up and go to the Quebec legislature with a sgian brew (or other sgian don't) in their hose. I'd like to see if the security would stop the person with the assumption that it was actually a sgian dubh.

This would allow us to determine a couple related things while preventing the investigator from any legal repercussions.

1) Is it a no knife policy or a no kirpan policy?
2) How is Scottish heritage officially perceived to fit into Quebec i.e. could it be no knives except for the sgian dubh?

If you volunteer, I'll see if I can arrange for the video....

[be da veva]

As an experiment, it would be interesting for someone to kilt up and go to the Quebec legislature with a sgian brew (or other sgian don't) in their hose. I'd like to see if the security would stop the person with the assumption that it was actually a sgian dubh.

I'm game. I've been to quite a few govermental buildings without any problem, but then again, very few govermental building have security personels...