Sihk kirpan controversy in Quebec

[CMcG]

Members of the Sihk religion carry a ceremonial dagger known as a kirpan. They have recently been taking heat for it the province of Quebec, which leads me to wonder how the Quebecois administrators feel about the sgian dubh?

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/quebec-legi...90002-803.html

[Biathlonman]

Both are about the same size - but I would imagine that Sikhs are an uncommon sight in many parts of Quebec. I know that in the US, where Sikhs are not well known, some people confuse them with Moslems.

You will never find a better soldier or policeman than a Sikh - or a stronger worker, but that being said, Scots have been in since 1759, the Black Watch is a Montreal regiment, and I doubt anyone's been turned away with a skean dhu or dirk for that matter.

I wonder when was the last time a skean dhu or dirk was used to stab someone?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Sikhs are under a religious obligation to carry a kirpan, although not all Sikhs are observant of the tenets of their faith. Since the kirpan is a religious object, unlike the sgian dubh which is an item of cultural value, one could reasonably argue that there is no possible legal similarity between the two.

[CMcG]

Sikhs are under a religious obligation to carry a kirpan, although not all Sikhs are observant of the tenets of their faith. Since the kirpan is a religious object, unlike the sgian dubh which is an item of cultural value, one could reasonably argue that there is no possible legal similarity between the two.

It is true that the reasons for carrying the knives in question are different. I suspect, however, that the official position of intolerance towards them in Quebec is the same.

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects both cultural and religious expressions. I didn't realize that Quebec never ratified it, as I thought it was a federal issue but Quebec is apparently a special case...

Does anyone have current experience with wearing a sgian dubh in Quebec?

[slohairt]

That's not surprising to hear really. There's been some issues recently in Québec with Islamic headdress.

[Zardoz]

Never knew about these issues, I learn something new every day!
But if the largely failed experiment of 'multiculturalism' doesn't work for the Quebecois, good for them!

[muirkirkca]

I believe the Sikhs could have left their kirpans at the door. The issue is about wearing weapons in the legistature and similar public environments. I doubt if they would get very far in trying to enter the US and other parts of the world by international airline airline. I imagine similar reaction if one was wearing a dagger with a kilt as it should be.

[macwilkin]

Never knew about these issues, I learn something new every day!
But if the largely failed experiment of 'multiculturalism' doesn't work for the Quebecois, good for them!

While I'm not normally a proponent of forced 'multiculturalism', in this instance, I stand with the Sikhs, given the long-standing connections between Sikh soldiers and the Jocks. The Pipes & Drums 3rd Battalion of the Indian Army's Sikh Regiment wears the Rattray tartan in honour of the Scot who raised them during the Raj. Lord Singh, a Sikh, has been instrumental in promoting the works of Burns in Scotland, as well as designing two Sikh tartans.

My grandfather saw first-hand the bravery and courage of Sikh soldiers in Burma. He rated the Gurkhas, Sikhs and Scots as some of the best soldiers he saw. Sikh children are taught their history, and many a Sikh web site discusses the Sikh Regiments and their history.

Good for the Sikhs.

T.

[Biathlonman]

Amen Cajunscot. Sikhism was born in adversity, they were assailed by both Muslims and Hindus and had to defend themselves.

Orthodox Sikhs adhere to the five "Ks": the kirpan, not cutting one's hair, wearing special underwear, wearing a bangle on the right wrist and one more I can't recall.

At the same time, an oath sworn by a highlander on a dirk was a holy thing - going back to pre-Christian beliefs. It was something more than culture, something less than religion. Banning kirpans is a tough call - but they are a weapon after all. A cop would likely assess a skean dhu ban depending on the situation.

But Quebec outside Montreal tends to be increasingly made up of descendants of the original French habitants, and they're generally less familiar with other cultures than we are here in polyglot Toronto. Folks know their genealogy too, though they commonly imagine we Anglo-Scots arrived recently. It surprises them to hear that my first ancestors turned up on this continent in the 1630s, for example, or that another ancestor fought to defend Quebec from American invasion during the Revolution, or that some of us actually speak passable French. Wearing a kilt in Quebec is a statement they do respect - the Scots who settled in after New France had been beaten themselves, and were less heavy handed than the English. It isn't uncommon either in Quebec to find someone who only speaks French, with an Irish or Scottish surname. We're a funny country up here. A famous "French" former prime minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau, wore an Elliot kilt on occasion. I can't think of a PM who's done that since.

As for Gurkhas, they love tartan and the pipes. Met some attending a winter exercise at a huge army base near Quebec City last winter. Much mutual language incomprehension and laughter when they tried to buy the rice they liked in the army supermarket. Very fit and formidable though - I felt you could trust them with your life.

[Spc. Scott]

Now mind you I have only met 3 total so this is anecdotal at best but this is similar to what they were carrying.



Now this might, and likely isn't, what every Sikh carries but I'm having a hard time seeing the problem with this. It's not as if Sikhs are walking around on a daily basis carrying a shamshir. It just wouldn't be practical.