Formal Ambiguity

[Father Bill]

So...I'm not running around handing out yellow tickets for blatant dress violations but I sort of thought that there were some, let us say, "guidelines" that we try to stick to?

There are a lot of folks who have no notion how to dress. They speak about "tuxedos" (black dinner jackets) and "dress shirts" (when they mean business shirts) and often these are the haberdashers themselves. I have in the past suggested that as a general guideline people attend only events that are no more than one level of dress above what they usually or often wear because they'll feel quite out of place in anything beyond that.

The folks I love are those who send invitations marked "dress optional." I don't know if that means that I could wear one of my wife's frocks (not that they would come close to fitting!) or if it means that I can come naked. Good thing that the clerical collar isn't actually permanently attached to the shirt. I could wear it alone and come as a naked priest, I guess!

[Father Bill]

I could wear it alone and come as a naked priest, I guess!

...and no, I shan't post photos.

[Spartan Tartan]

It seems that "Black and White tie (optional)" would mean black tie...oh, and if you have white tie and want to wear it, that's fine too.

In the Navy (and other services as well) we have a "uniform of the day" set by the Commander or regional Admiral--however, it is alway acceptable to wear a "nicer" or more formal uniform. Just not a less formal uniform.

[Whidbey78]

It seems that "Black and White tie (optional)" would mean black tie...oh, and if you have white tie and want to wear it, that's fine too.

In the Navy (and other services as well) we have a "uniform of the day" set by the Commander or regional Admiral--however, it is alway acceptable to wear a "nicer" or more formal uniform. Just not a less formal uniform.

I interpret this the same way. It sounds like it's black tie as a minimum, but you can go a step past it if you choose.

I really miss prescribed uniforms. No guesswork. But they used to drop this same ambiguous language in our Squadron Christmas Party invites, which were always in civilian clothes. When we got there dress would range from a sweater and dockers to suits and everything in between.

Someday, just maybe, there will be standard language on invitations so there's no head-scratchin'.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Someday, just maybe, there will be standard language on invitations so there's no head-scratchin'.

There is, but many of those hosting an event aren't aware of it.

When the level of formality of an event has been decided, the hosts should clearly state it on the invitation:

Formal: White Tie-- this means only white tie is to be worn;

or

Formal: White Tie (preferred), this indicates that black tie may be worn;

Formal: Black Tie-- gentlemen are advised that only dinner jackets (tuxedoes) are to be worn;

Formal: Black Tie (preferred), indicates that a dark business suit may be worn in lieu of a dinner jacket.

If any other standard of dress is acceptable, it will be stated on the invitation:

Black tie, Highland Attire (preferred) Unless you live in Scotland, or the invitation is to a specifically Scottish event (a "Tartan Ball" for example), then Highland attire should not be worn unless specified on the invitation.

Black tie, Uniform, decorations The same applies to military uniforms. Unless the invitation specifically states "uniform, decorations", then the wearing of a military uniform to a civilian event is as inappropriate as showing up in flip flops and an aloha shirt.

One other thing to note: "black tie" means just that, a black bow tie, not one of tartan or some gay colour. The eccentricity of a tartan cummerbund may be overlooked, but the gentleman sporting a tartan bow tie will be regarded as having modeled himself on Rodney Dangerfield, rather than the Duke of Rothsey.

[auld argonian]

I just too another look at the invitation and to clear up the phrasing:

Black (or White) Tie Optional

...so I got the parentheses wrong in my first post...thus, you can see what their intention is.

Best

AA

[Whidbey78]

There is, but many of those hosting an event aren't aware of it.

...

Thanks for the refresher MoR.

I guess I worded that incorrectly. What I meant was that hopefully someday people hosting events will again use the proper terminology, tell invitees what level of dress is appropriate, and get over the fear that nobody will show up because there is a dress code.

I wonder if sometimes less people show up because they are unsure what to wear and are worried about the embarrassment of being underdressed or overdressed. I hate to admit it, but I've opted out of events because of this. I have gone to events called "business casual," or something very similar, and found everyone else in suits, then the next one it's unbuttoned collars and khakis, and the next one it's polos and shorts. Often I receive invitations that don't even offer an ambiguous reference to dress code. I've gotten them from city and county offices, several colleges, my wife gets them from several educator and artist organizations, and most of the time it just says when it is, where it is, and what it's about. Frustrating!! You would think educated people, and those in leadership positions and elected office would know better, or at least hire those who do.

[Zardoz]

There should be no embarrassment for being slightly "overdressed" better that than under in my book.

[robbiethepiper]

There is, but many of those hosting an event aren't aware of it.

When the level of formality of an event has been decided, the hosts should clearly state it on the invitation:

Formal: White Tie-- this means only white tie is to be worn;

or

Formal: White Tie (preferred), this indicates that black tie may be worn;

Formal: Black Tie-- gentlemen are advised that only dinner jackets (tuxedoes) are to be worn;

Formal: Black Tie (preferred), indicates that a dark business suit may be worn in lieu of a dinner jacket.

If any other standard of dress is acceptable, it will be stated on the invitation:

Black tie, Highland Attire (preferred) Unless you live in Scotland, or the invitation is to a specifically Scottish event (a "Tartan Ball" for example), then Highland attire should not be worn unless specified on the invitation.

Black tie, Uniform, decorations The same applies to military uniforms. Unless the invitation specifically states "uniform, decorations", then the wearing of a military uniform to a civilian event is as inappropriate as showing up in flip flops and an aloha shirt.

One other thing to note: "black tie" means just that, a black bow tie, not one of tartan or some gay colour. The eccentricity of a tartan cummerbund may be overlooked, but the gentleman sporting a tartan bow tie will be regarded as having modeled himself on Rodney Dangerfield, rather than the Duke of Rothsey.

Have long admired your superb knowledge of etiquette, so disagree on even one point with some trepidation, BUT.. I hold that is perfectly proper for a Scot to wear the kilted equivalent to any black tie event, be it held in Inverness, New Orleans or Timbuctoo. The kilt is my everyday attire, not some costume reserved for "theme nights". I dislike breaking the dress code through ignorance, so would be grateful for sources? I ask as an honest seeker of knowledge, not in order to challenge your undoubted expertise....

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Have long admired your superb knowledge of etiquette, so disagree on even one point with some trepidation, BUT.. I hold that is perfectly proper for a Scot to wear the kilted equivalent to any black tie event, be it held in Inverness, New Orleans or Timbuctoo. The kilt is my everyday attire, not some costume reserved for "theme nights". I dislike breaking the dress code through ignorance, so would be grateful for sources? I ask as an honest seeker of knowledge, not in order to challenge your undoubted expertise....

I'm not sure how "undoubted" my expertise may be but you have raised a very valid point, especially for those who are habitually attired in the kilt.

As it is the host, not the guest, who determines how people should be attired the indiscriminate wearing of Highland attire is best avoided. In Scotland it is understood that formal attire always includes Highland attire. Outside of Scotland, especially if one is not a native born Scot, out of courtesy to the host one is best advised to strictly adhere to the requested standards printed on the invitation.

I can think of three reasons for not wearing Highland attire:

1) if one's presence in Highland attire is apt to call attention away from the host or their honoured guest of the evening;

2) even though one may not regard Highland attire as a costume, others present at the event may see it as such;

3) a gentleman never accepts an invitation and then willfully disregards the social terms under which the invitation is extended.

If the invitation says RSVP, one RSVPs. Likewise, if it says 8 o'clock for 8:30, one does not arrive at 8:45. And if it says "Black tie, Highland attire" that's what one wears; black tie with or without being kilted. If "Highland attire" isn't an option, then-- out of courtesy to the host-- one dresses as requested and wears ordinary black tie.