Formal Ambiguity

[auld argonian]

So...we have two invitations to separate events in the month of March...perfect opportunity to wear the kilt...

...the one is an architecture prize...this'll be nothing new since I've attended some of the past events that this organization has held and have switched off between kilted and "saxon" formal dress.

The invite for the other is where the ambiguity occurs...

"Black or White Tie (optional)"

Okay...first, white tie? Is this a State Dinner? Will the President of France be present? And then, optional? ...that's code for "we don't care...just wear the suit you went to work in today...any old schmotta will do" in these here parts. Okay...this is on a Friday evening but you don't have time to run home and change or change at the office?

So you see why I'm kinda making the scrunched up "wha' the hell?" face while I'm reading this invitation. I mean nothing surprises me around here....I went to a matinee at the opera a few weeks ago and there was a contingent there wearing black tie at two in the afternoon...I'm not running around handing out yellow tickets for blatant dress violations but I sort of thought that there were some, let us say, "guidelines" that we try to stick to?

I'm just sayin'....

Best

AA

[Father Bill]

So...I'm not running around handing out yellow tickets for blatant dress violations but I sort of thought that there were some, let us say, "guidelines" that we try to stick to?

There are a lot of folks who have no notion how to dress. They speak about "tuxedos" (black dinner jackets) and "dress shirts" (when they mean business shirts) and often these are the haberdashers themselves. I have in the past suggested that as a general guideline people attend only events that are no more than one level of dress above what they usually or often wear because they'll feel quite out of place in anything beyond that.

The folks I love are those who send invitations marked "dress optional." I don't know if that means that I could wear one of my wife's frocks (not that they would come close to fitting!) or if it means that I can come naked. Good thing that the clerical collar isn't actually permanently attached to the shirt. I could wear it alone and come as a naked priest, I guess!

[Father Bill]

I could wear it alone and come as a naked priest, I guess!

...and no, I shan't post photos.

[Spartan Tartan]

It seems that "Black and White tie (optional)" would mean black tie...oh, and if you have white tie and want to wear it, that's fine too.

In the Navy (and other services as well) we have a "uniform of the day" set by the Commander or regional Admiral--however, it is alway acceptable to wear a "nicer" or more formal uniform. Just not a less formal uniform.

[Whidbey78]

It seems that "Black and White tie (optional)" would mean black tie...oh, and if you have white tie and want to wear it, that's fine too.

In the Navy (and other services as well) we have a "uniform of the day" set by the Commander or regional Admiral--however, it is alway acceptable to wear a "nicer" or more formal uniform. Just not a less formal uniform.

I interpret this the same way. It sounds like it's black tie as a minimum, but you can go a step past it if you choose.

I really miss prescribed uniforms. No guesswork. But they used to drop this same ambiguous language in our Squadron Christmas Party invites, which were always in civilian clothes. When we got there dress would range from a sweater and dockers to suits and everything in between.

Someday, just maybe, there will be standard language on invitations so there's no head-scratchin'.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Someday, just maybe, there will be standard language on invitations so there's no head-scratchin'.

There is, but many of those hosting an event aren't aware of it.

When the level of formality of an event has been decided, the hosts should clearly state it on the invitation:

Formal: White Tie-- this means only white tie is to be worn;

or

Formal: White Tie (preferred), this indicates that black tie may be worn;

Formal: Black Tie-- gentlemen are advised that only dinner jackets (tuxedoes) are to be worn;

Formal: Black Tie (preferred), indicates that a dark business suit may be worn in lieu of a dinner jacket.

If any other standard of dress is acceptable, it will be stated on the invitation:

Black tie, Highland Attire (preferred) Unless you live in Scotland, or the invitation is to a specifically Scottish event (a "Tartan Ball" for example), then Highland attire should not be worn unless specified on the invitation.

Black tie, Uniform, decorations The same applies to military uniforms. Unless the invitation specifically states "uniform, decorations", then the wearing of a military uniform to a civilian event is as inappropriate as showing up in flip flops and an aloha shirt.

One other thing to note: "black tie" means just that, a black bow tie, not one of tartan or some gay colour. The eccentricity of a tartan cummerbund may be overlooked, but the gentleman sporting a tartan bow tie will be regarded as having modeled himself on Rodney Dangerfield, rather than the Duke of Rothsey.

[Zardoz]

It seems that "Black and White tie (optional)" would mean black tie...

That would be my call too,

I go to a big "formal" event for one of my wife's clubs every year, it's event is supposed to be Black-Tie, but I'd bet almost half of the men there were in business suits, half of them not even in dark ones!

They are ambiguous in the way they word the invites too. They do not actually list a dress code, but use the terms "formal" and "black-tie event" in the body of the invitation. If folks ask, they tell them "black tie optional", which just means wear whatever! I asked an organizer about it once, and they're concerned that "people might not come" if it was 'black-tie required' and they were too rigid etc...

I go to a big formal Marti Gras ball every year that is black tie required, they actually tell you in the invite that you will be turned away if not in formal wear, and they include a discount coupon to a local tux rental place with the invitations. I like that, seeing everyone dressed up really gives the party a sense of occasion.

[macwilkin]

I go to a big formal Marti Gras ball every year that is black tie required, they actually tell you in the invite that you will be turned away if not in formal wear, and they include a discount coupon to a local tux rental place with the invitations. I like that, seeing everyone dressed up really gives the party a sense of occasion.

That's very typical for the older, established Krewes in New Orleans. If you don't follow the dress code, you will not be allowed in.

t.

[CMcG]

<snip>
The invite for the other is where the ambiguity occurs...

"Black or White Tie (optional)"

That is rather confusing, eh? One might parse this into two parts, in order to determine the sense:

"Black Tie" and "White Tie (optional)"

I would take it as black tie is the minimum but some people will opt for white tie.

[auld argonian]

That is rather confusing, eh? One might parse this into two parts, in order to determine the sense:

"Black Tie" and "White Tie (optional)"

I would take it as black tie is the minimum but some people will opt for white tie.

Based on my experience with these things, there will be a significant number of men who will just show up in the business suit that they wore during the day. There really is an attitude of, "Oh, screw this, I am not going to bother to change for this event. I am blessing them with my presence and that should be enough." amongst them. Crappy attitude but pretty common...

Best

AA