formal evening dress: vest or no?

**xman** · 12th April 10, 05:47 PM

If the unkilted n00b can throw in here ...

There's something about a tucked shirt that seems to demand a belt to break the line. It just looks cleaner.

A waistcoat is my preference though.

**JSFMACLJR** · 12th April 10, 05:53 PM

**creagdhubh** · 18th April 10, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

Nice photos, especially the last one of my Chief, Sir William Macpherson of Cluny! Yes, he does not wear a waistcoat with his regulation doublet. Instead he wears a black leather belt, with a silver buckle that has his arms engraved into it-I have inspected the buckle very closely whilst I was with Cluny in 2008. He used to wear a waistcoat all the time with his evening wear, sometimes in red, sometimes in dress Macpherson tartan cut on the bias, but more often than not it was in black barathea. He likes the more easy-going and comfortable look now. Cheers on a great photo of my beloved Cluny!

**Bugbear** · 12th April 10, 05:43 PM

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot.

And I don't know about the cravat.

I suppose as long as there is some kind of waist cover it would be ok from what I have read on black tie atire.

**CMcG** · 12th April 10, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot.

And I don't know about the cravat.

<snip>

I don't see why you couldn't wear a 5 button vest with jabot but I'm no expert... I don't think I've seen that look with a PC though... do you have any pictures?

**piperdbh** · 12th April 10, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by CMcG

I don't see why you couldn't wear a 5 button vest with jabot but I'm no expert... I don't think I've seen that look with a PC though... do you have any pictures?

Lace jabot and cuffs is for white-tie events, which are more "formal" than black-tie.
For the PC, I think the low-cut, 3-button waistcoat with bow tie is better. Here's a shot of yours truly:

**Jock Scot** · 13th April 10, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Why not five button vest with jabot?
I just like the jabot.

And I don't know about the cravat.

I suppose as long as there is some kind of waist cover it would be ok from what I have read on black tie atire.

Ted the Jabot is really another step up the formal scale, in the white tie league, and is normally worn with a "Montrose", or perhaps the versitile "Sheriffmuir". I don't think that wearing a jabot with a PC would be quite right.

**Bugbear** · 13th April 10, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Ted the Jabot is really another step up the formal scale, in the white tie league, and is normally worn with a "Montrose", or perhaps the versitile "Sheriffmuir". I don't think that wearing a jabot with a PC would be quite right.

Thanks, Jock.

I'm having to unlearn some things suddenly.

I think it is time for me to stand back from the formal Highland attire discussions, now.

**JSFMACLJR** · 13th April 10, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ted Crocker

Thanks, Jock.

I'm having to unlearn some things suddenly.

I think it is time for me to stand back from the formal Highland attire discussions, now.

Please don't, Ted! I, for one, value your insight.

**Bugbear** · 13th April 10, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by JSFMACLJR

Please don't, Ted! I, for one, value your insight.

Thanks. It is a little difficult to deal with having learned that the jabot can be worn with any of the formal highland jackets, including the formal dress Argyle, then suddenly several people are saying it is for white tie and only to be worn with the doublets other than the PC.

When MacMillan of Rathdown has told me, directly, that the jabot can be properly worn with either a dress Argyle or a PC, along with the high throat waistcoat, or even an Eton jacket, I end up feeling that I am being singled out for his information, rather than the arguement being taken to him. He has been discussing this, here on the forum, for years now. I know very little about Highland attire, beyond what has been discussed on the forum.