Sihk kirpan controversy in Quebec

[BoldHighlander]

Seriously, who gets pissed off at the Sikhs, its like getting in a fistfight with Gandhi.

I don't know about that. I use to work with some Sikhs, and they were bad @ss mofos! Just ask Indira Gandhi, she found out the hard way!

[macwilkin]

They want to wear a ceremonial knife in their hair, not make everyone around them wear it. They aren't behaving like other groups and demanding that their religious views become law, they just want to practice their religion, which is all about tolerance and brotherhood and fighting injustice. Seriously, who gets pissed off at the Sikhs, its like getting in a fistfight with Gandhi.
Oh well, the Sikhs would be better served moving to a friendlier local anyway (pretty much anywhere is friendlier than where these are)>

As the husband of someone of Francophone (Acadian & Louisiana Creole) heritage, whilst I certainly respect the Quebecois for their efforts to preserve their culture, one would hope that they would extend the same respect they demand from others. I know a fellow in New Brunswick who is half Scot, half Acadian who has told me firsthand of how some in Quebec look down their nose at the Maritime French.

However, in this instance, I stand with the Sikhs, because of the nasty things folks said to my wife about her French heritage back in 2003.

T

[artificer]

They want to wear a ceremonial knife in their hair, not make everyone around them wear it. They aren't behaving like other groups and demanding that their religious views become law, they just want to practice their religion, which is all about tolerance and brotherhood and fighting injustice. Seriously, who gets pissed off at the Sikhs, its like getting in a fistfight with Gandhi.
Oh well, the Sikhs would be better served moving to a friendlier local anyway (pretty much anywhere is friendlier than where these are)>

***. Asking for tolerance is a LOT different that attempting to bend others to their POV.

How would the Quebeccies feel if the rest of Canada suddenly stripped off the French from government signage and documents?

When you are the minority in your country, and are afforded things like French signage everywhere, it seems especially petty to attempt to trod on the 'little guy' in YOUR state (where you are the big guy).

I won't say anything further about Canadian politics, as it's not my country, but personally I will nearly ALWAYS side with "tolerance/acceptance" over "my way or the highway".
ith:

[macwilkin]

Post deleted.

[Tobus]

Is it so wrong to say "this is our culture. if you don't like it don't come here. Many places in the world will let you live as you wish. Just not here".

Yes, it is wrong if a nation that pretends to be a friend to liberty is in the business of telling a peaceful person how to live his own life, or trying to make him fit a certain mold. That's not liberty.

The idea of keeping a nation culturally pure, racially pure, religiously pure, or any other kind of purity that's based on exclusivity, is an obsolete one that should conjure unpleasant memories of the past where they have been tried. The only way to truly enforce such 'purity' is through bloodshed.

Forced multiculturalism through law is abhorrent, but forced monoculturalism is just as bad. I can understand the desire for a culture to want to maintain its identity and traditions, and I even support that idea. But not when it takes a negative tone by actively denying the culture of others.

After all, would any of us want to be told that we cannot wear kilts because they don't fit in with mainstream culture wherever we happen to be? Or would we rather enjoy the liberty of proudly wearing the garb and accoutrements of our heritage?

We of Scots descent, of all people, should understand the idea of liberty and cultural tolerance.

[macwilkin]

I don't know about that. I use to work with some Sikhs, and they were bad @ss mofos! Just ask Indira Gandhi, she found out the hard way!

And the Axis Powers in WWII...

[Lallans]

I don't know about that. I use to work with some Sikhs, and they were bad @ss mofos! Just ask Indira Gandhi, she found out the hard way!

Yes and the Sikhs have been responsible for some pretty spectacular killings in Canada, including but far from limited to the 1985 bombing of an Air India airliner that killed 329 people (including 280 Canadian citizens) off the coast of Ireland. They are far from being a pacifist group but I personally still don't see that the kirpans worn by average Sikhs are a huge security risk.

[Lallans]

Yes, it is wrong if a nation that pretends to be a friend to liberty is in the business of telling a peaceful person how to live his own life, or trying to make him fit a certain mold. That's not liberty.

The idea of keeping a nation culturally pure, racially pure, religiously pure, or any other kind of purity that's based on exclusivity, is an obsolete one that should conjure unpleasant memories of the past where they have been tried. The only way to truly enforce such 'purity' is through bloodshed.

Forced multiculturalism through law is abhorrent, but forced monoculturalism is just as bad. I can understand the desire for a culture to want to maintain its identity and traditions, and I even support that idea. But not when it takes a negative tone by actively denying the culture of others.

After all, would any of us want to be told that we cannot wear kilts because they don't fit in with mainstream culture wherever we happen to be? Or would we rather enjoy the liberty of proudly wearing the garb and accoutrements of our heritage?

We of Scots descent, of all people, should understand the idea of liberty and cultural tolerance.

Quebec remains in Canada, but on what could often be taken to be a day-to-day basis. And let's say that if they separate I would not care to live there and leave it at that.

[be da veva]

Wow,

Well, I'm living in the forementioned province and my english is not as good as my french, but you seem to be missing a few infos on how things are here...
Like everywhere else, there is bigotery and xenophobia. BUT.... It is not shared by all.
We can all point somewhere and say that somethings are wrong.
For the cultural effort of trying to save everything that is french, the people will let themselves be told what to keep of their (french) history and stay away from anything else... though most are of mixed blooded heritage. I myself have a good mix of scottish, irish and french going back a few centuries. But the people in the media will lean toward the french part of our history because it is more sexy, more appealling for the ratings.
Yes, Canada is bilingual. I am french canadian first, quebecois second. Does that mean I should not be proud of my ancestry? Canada is bilingual, but the provinces decides what language to use officially. Some uses english, some are bilingual, one is french.
Somebody in the prairies or over the rockies don't like to see french on their cereal box in the morning? Well somebody on the Cote Nord doesn't like to see english on theirs either. Yes there is some xenophobia, but it is not only centered on the french side.

As for religion. The goverment has taken the religion out of the office. Religion is something of a joke to many here. Sad as it is, this is the reality. They don't care about where you are from they don't care what you believe. All they care about is what the mainstream medias are spewing about cultural differences.
This said though, as I have said before, this is not representative of all the french speaking population of Quebec.
The kirpan situation mentionned above is representative of how our goverment works...
You can leave a message, but they won't read it.
But to be fair, all goverment buildings are to be considered neutral terrain. Everybody is equal, no exeptions of religous or cultural is tolerated. You cannot take a kirpan on a plane, you cannot bring it in the building. You cannot wear a veil to indentify yourself at the airport, same in an official goverment building. (but they will have a female officer on site to identify the women wearing a veil because their religion forbids them of showing there faces to the men). This is basically something that came with 911 that slowly slided to the french paranoia that we are close to any other culture than our own.
BTW a decorative little kirpan on a hairbrush would've pass with no problem. Maybe not on a plane.
As with everything else, moderation is best.

On a side note, imagine a chinese restaurant opening in Little Italy only catering to chinese speaking customers. How do you think the Italians would like that. Would they think it a good idea? The best location? Imagine 20 restaurants.....

Have a good day

P.S. I don't wear a kilt pin on a plane but I do in the official buildings...

[CMcG]

be da veva,

Thanks for chiming in, I was hoping that someone from Quebec might be able to put this in perspective.

Can you comment on how the kilt is treated in La Belle Provence, according to your experience? And in relation to the article, how about the sgian dubh?