What should we have to accept when buying a custom made kilt?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I have to object to the notion that if a cheaper kilt is purchased poor workmanship is acceptable. Workmanship should be fantastic no matter if a kilt is $50 or $5,000. The cost only should effect the cloth quality the cloth meterial ie wool vs. PV and the amount used. If you cannot produce a quality made kilt at a low price than don't make kilts for that price!! I think it's outrageous that some think this kilt is acceptable at any price!

I used to sell advertising for a magazine. I had many clients run the same ad in highend quality magazines as well as cheap newsletters and flyers. Both were effective. Why? It was because the ad designed was thoughtful, well designed and attractive. The cost between the many lines of advertising change drastically but the quality of the ad remained high and were effective.

A kilt should be made with thought, it should be well made/designed and attractive. Regardless of the fabric or like in my illustration the paper it is printed on.

I'll agree with that up to a point. The cost of the kilt not only reflects the cost & quality of the material, but it also represents the labor hours involved in making the garment. In a traditional hand sewn kilt, an individual has spent perhaps 20 hours involved in the garment's construction.

You just are not going to get that same quality of construction in a $50 kilt. Especially when you do the math to figure that the $50 kilt probably cost the seller $25 to buy, leaving $25 to cover the cost of materials, labor, plus profit for the manufacturer. It's all about making the kilt as quickly and inexpensively as possible.

With that in mind, I think it is unreasonable to expect the same quality of construction in a $50 and $500 kilt.

[RockyR]

I'll agree with that up to a point. The cost of the kilt not only reflects the cost & quality of the material, but it also represents the labor hours involved in making the garment. In a traditional hand sewn kilt, an individual has spent perhaps 20 hours involved in the garment's construction.

You just are not going to get that same quality of construction in a $50 kilt. Especially when you do the math to figure that the $50 kilt probably cost the seller $25 to buy, leaving $25 to cover the cost of materials, labor, plus profit for the manufacturer. It's all about making the kilt as quickly and inexpensively as possible.

With that in mind, I think it is unreasonable to expect the same quality of construction in a $50 and $500 kilt.

Matt beat me to it. I agree 100%.

For an 8 yard wool kilt... if the material is roughly $200 to $225 or so, then the balance of the price is the labor (and rent / electric / advertising / health insurance / etc). That would make a hand sewn kilt from certain 'high end' makers roughly $500 labor (if it was a $700 kilt). Would you expect the same quality from someone giving less than $100 labor (and heat / electric / rent / etc)? Either high end kilt firms are excessively overcharging or they put more labor / knowledge / care into a kilt. Forgetting about rent / etc., if you pay kiltmakers at both firms $20 / hour, that gives the first firm 5 hours to make the kilt and the higher end firm 25 hours to make a kilt.

I would echo Matt's comments. There's no reason to put out a poorly made kilt, but as a consumer, you shouldn't expect the same thing from a $300 kilt that you should from a $700 kilt.

Would you expect a Farrari and a VW Jetta to handle the same on the racetrack?

[artificer]

Would you expect a Farrari and a VW Jetta to handle the same on the racetrack?

Yes! I would expect both of them would be stuck in the service bays and the Honda to be alone out on the track

[GG]

1) Not likely. When you steek the pleats and hand sew the lining, it's easy to make sure the tartan lines match up on the inside.

2) Not within Tolerances.

3) I'd much prefer to re-make or fix the kilt without charge (including return shipping charges) as it would have been a product outside normal 'tolerances' and not representative of a product we would consciously put into the marketplace.

Thank you, Rocky, I appreciate your answers.

[Cowher]

I'll agree with that up to a point. The cost of the kilt not only reflects the cost & quality of the material, but it also represents the labor hours involved in making the garment. In a traditional hand sewn kilt, an individual has spent perhaps 20 hours involved in the garment's construction.

You just are not going to get that same quality of construction in a $50 kilt. Especially when you do the math to figure that the $50 kilt probably cost the seller $25 to buy, leaving $25 to cover the cost of materials, labor, plus profit for the manufacturer. It's all about making the kilt as quickly and inexpensively as possible.

With that in mind, I think it is unreasonable to expect the same quality of construction in a $50 and $500 kilt.

True. Your not going to get a hand sewn kilt from let's say sportkilt. But it should not look like the kilt pictured. The pleats should line up and the kilt should adhere to the basic concept of what a tartan kilt should look like. Using the car illustration. You can't expect a VW to perform like a super car but it should be a car not a pogo stick.

[GG]

And to reiterate, Scott, to his credit, has agreed to a refund. So I'll have to move on with this.

Well, at least you have got a refund. However, to me it indicates, that Tartanweb has given up making you a decent kilt, probably because their last attempt is the best they can.

As I have understood from your thread you ordered the kilt back in August 2010, meaning more than half a year ago and haven't got anything but troubles.

Hopefully you'll find another kiltmaker/vendor who is capable of doing the job.

[RockyR]

True. Your not going to get a hand sewn kilt from let's say sportkilt. But it should not look like the kilt pictured. The pleats should line up and the kilt should adhere to the basic concept of what a tartan kilt should look like. Using the car illustration. You can't expect a VW to perform like a super car but it should be a car not a pogo stick.

Agreed... and the kilt provided looks like a kilt. It may not have the attention to detail of a more expensive kilt, but moderatley priced cars don't have heated steering wheels, wipers on the headlights and run flat tires. I'm not defending spotty workmansship by saying it's acceptable, but I'm trying to set realistic customer expectations.

As Riverkilt is very fond of saying (paraphrasing here)

Of Quality, Price and Speed, you can have 2.

[CDNSushi]

Greg,

Without getting into what went wrong in the specific situation you highlighted (and why), I think there are a few things we still need to consider. Perhaps a brief story will illustrate it better.

Years ago, I was digging through some boxes in the attic at my parents' house when I came across an entire bolt of very nice, navy blue, pinstriped wool fabric. There was a fair bit of fabric, so I inquired as to its origin and purpose. Turns out, it was going to be made into a suit for a family member to be worn at his own wedding, but somehow the situation changed and the plan never came to completion.

Having come from a long line of tailors and seamstresses, I asked my grandmother, an accomplished tailor, whether she would make me a 3-piece suit, since it would be such a shame to see such nice wool go unused. Of course she was more than glad to do so, and immediately enlisted the help of her sister, (my great aunt), also a tailor whose specialty was theatrical costumes, to assist her with the project.

Over the next six weeks, they worked tirelessly to complete my creation, and for my part, I spent several hours being measured, re-measured, and trying on pieces of the unfinished suit, from the waistcoat, to the jacket, to the trousers. Finally, when the day came that the suit was finished, it was flawless, and perfect. It fit me like a glove, and no one else in the world would look as good wearing it as me, as it was custom-fitted precisely to my body's specifications. Many fittings and measuring sessions made sure of it.

Nowadays, we still desire that same level of bespoke craftsmanship from kiltmakers, but we don't always consider that we have them at a bit of a disadvantage. We expect bespoke perfection from a company across the ocean, from someone whose only knowledge of us is a set of numeric measurements. It would be terribly impractical to go in for a fitting when our kiltmaker lives 10,000 km away, and across an ocean. And yet, we still expect perfection.

I would propose this. Regardless of whether you pay $150 for a kilt, or $700, if you receive a flawless item count yourself lucky if you haven't visited your kilt-in-progress in PERSON while it was being made to make sure that it was progressing the way it should. Even my accomplished tailor grandmother adjusted and changed the way certain pieces fit together as she was going along... Changes for which mere measurements with a tape measure would be insufficient.

Some people, by there unique body shape and specific characteristics are harder to fit than others. I happen to be one of the lucky ones who can grab many off-the-rack items and have them fit well. But others who don't generally fall into that category may be expecting a bit much even from an expert kiltmaker, if they are doing business from another country and over the Internet.

With that, I'm not trying to defend shoddy workmanship, nor am I trying to make any statement regarding the case in question here. But let's try to keep things in perspective when we order our next kilt and just ask yourself whether you're truly getting a bespoke product?

[GG]

Greg,

Some people, by there unique body shape and specific characteristics are harder to fit than others.

Sure, but as far as I can judge from the picture, in this case it is more a question of the kilt than of the wearer.

[GG]

True. Your not going to get a hand sewn kilt from let's say sportkilt. But it should not look like the kilt pictured. The pleats should line up and the kilt should adhere to the basic concept of what a tartan kilt should look like. Using the car illustration. You can't expect a VW to perform like a super car but it should be a car not a pogo stick.

Exactly my point - even if you are underestimating Volkwagen: They are better built and with greater precision than many more expensive cars.