formal evening dress: vest or no?

[AFS1970]

Oddly enough at my wedding much effort went into matching my kilt. The bridesmaids dresses and the ties & cummerbunds worn by the groomsmen were picked as they were a green that sort of went with my kilt. I even wore that bow tie, instead of my usual black.

No effort was made to match the hired piper, who was in his police uniform. But he was only there for the ceremony, not the reception. Some other family members were in tuxes also (I don't really get why) but they did not wear the green that the wedding party did.

I can see the cummerbund with the kilt as being something that breaks up the line, much like a belt does, but I don't like the way most of them are a satin like cloth and most kilts are not nearly as shiny. I think they would contrast each other too much in that regard. I did kind of like the cravat look, but to wear it properly requires to high a vest, and as such throws off the look.

[davidlpope]

Some other family members were in tuxes also (I don't really get why) but they did not wear the green that the wedding party did.

At what time was your wedding held? If after 6pm, then the correct attire for all guests is black tie.

Cordially,

David

[OC Richard]

I am not trying to be obtuse, or contentious, I am just trying to understand, but why are you trying to "...match in with the wedding..."? You are already standing out from the crowd, how is a cummerbund, or any other form of "camouflage", going to tone down your appearance? Why should you even want to match any one? None of the wedding guests will want to "match" you, surely? They have their own wedding attire that is probably an entirely different style altogether.

It's not about the wedding guests, but the men in the wedding party, who all have matching rented outfits. As the piper I'm sort of part of the wedding party in that I'm often standing up at the front with the rest during the ceremony, I'm seen in the wedding photos, etc.

As I've mentioned before, brides here are usually obsessive about having everything matching, and they very much appreciate it when the piper takes the trouble to not clash.

It's why so many pipers around here, the ones who play weddings anyhow, have bought plain black kilts, or Black Isle kilts, or other dark/neutral kilts. Black jacket, black hose, black kilt equals happy bride.

Perhaps it's not like this elsewhere, but here the entire wedding party, including the parents and oftentimes other relatives, are all colour-coordinated. On rare occasions the wedding invitations even specify colours to be worn or avoided by the guests.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Not wishing to be obtuse, or contentious, or uncaring of the desires of a bride on her day-of-days, but what the "hired help" wear to the ceremony or the reception that follows has, in my opinion, nothing to do with proper traditional Highland attire.

Pipers at weddings are hired performers and are costumed accordingly. The attire worn by paid performers (and that includes singers and members of marching bands) rarely, if ever, conforms to the expected norms of traditional formal dress and probably should not be considered as setting any standards or examples for the wearing of Highland attire.

For those who may have lost the general run of things, here's how it is supposed to work:

WHITE TIE: a white waistcoat is always worn with "open front" jackets.

BLACK TIE: a black, low cut, waistcoat is always worn with "open front" jackets. (A tartan waistcoat may be substituted for the black waistcoat.)

DIRK BELTS: worn only if wearing a dirk, and then it is buckled over the waistcoat. A dirk belt is never worn under the waistcoat, and should never be worn in lieu of a waistcoat, except (perhaps) if "dining in" when dress standards may tend to be slightly more relaxed.

FURTHER: a gentleman never removes his jacket in public, especially when at table. He may, however, remove his jacket when playing billiards, or to cover a lady's shoulders should the evening air turn chilly.

And that's it. Couldn't be simpler. No matter what "Fronk" the wedding planner might suggest.

[macwilkin]

Thanks, MoR,

I am / was among those interested to hear about the Broad Riband, including civilian Black Tie.

I am a member of an organization that bestows a medallion (on a neck ribbon) on its past presidents, but has no badge of office for the current president. I had thought that a sash in the same color, not unlike the Order of the Arrow, might be a good insignia for the office, but got no particular enthusiasm. We may end up with a chain, like a Lord Mayor's, or some kind of staff, like a bishop's crozier. Or we may stick with the status quo- zip. The president appears only once or twice in full dress during his year of office, so it may be simplest to remain unencumbered. Perhaps a live badger on a leash...

I have always admired the regalia of the St. Andrew's Society of St. John, New Brunswick, the second oldest Scottish society in Canada (The North British Society of Halifax being the first):

http://sassj.ca/wp/officers/

A number of hereditary societies in the US have very nice regalia; Bailey Banks and Biddle produce ours in the Military Order of the Loyal Legion of the USA, and our rosettes come from Dexter Rosettes:

http://www.dexterrosettes.com/

T.

[Bugbear]

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore.

I think the four button, scoop front waistcoats are very nice. That is the style I would prefer with a bowtie.

[Bugbear]

I wasn't going to post in this thread anymore.

I think the four button, scoop front waistcoats are very nice. That is the style I would prefer with a bowtie.

You did not understand what was being discussed; you should not have posted that.

[AFS1970]

The black tie only wedding I was at, was for a friend of mine. At his bachelor party I remarked about renting a tux for the event and he looked at me like I had three heads, and said that he couldn't imagine that at my age (I think I was 34) I did not own a tux. Obviously my friend and I travel in different circles.

Oddly enough, I had thought that my highland attire might have been a distraction, so I went with the standard black tux. Had I realized that the cow print was OK (as well as other individual touches) I would ahve worn my kilt and settled for being the best dressed at the event.

As for rules, I was surprised when I went on my one and only cruise, that Formal night no longer meant black tie. The paperwork from the cruise line simply said a jacket and tie as well as no shorts or sandals. There were a number of tuxes, and one Kilted attendee, but mostly what I would call a sport suit.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Oh NO!!!! Now EVERYONE will want one!

I guess we'll just have to tell them that they can only be worn if one was given one on their twenty-first birthday by Her Majesty.

Right, Sandy?

[JSFMACLJR]

Exactly, Scott! Only for the privileged few.