Lapel, cuff, and pocket flap Facing on a Dress Argyle?

[Bugbear]

What are the options for the lapel material on a traditional dress Argyle: silk wool, etc?

Should the cuffs, and pocket flaps be made from the same material as the lapel facing?

* That would be the silver button, dress Argyle that can be worn as black tie attire that MacMillan of Rathdown and others have talked about. *
Thank you.

[JSFMACLJR]

What are the options for the lapel material on a traditional dress Argyle: silk wool, etc?

Should the cuffs, and pocket flaps be made from the same material as the lapel facing?

* That would be the silver button, dress Argyle that can be worn as black tie attire that MacMillan of Rathdown and others have talked about. *
Thank you.

Hi Ted,

If you have in mind the plain black Argyll jacket that can be worn to dressy daytime functions as well as to evening black tie events, then the lapels would have to be of the same material as the rest of the jacket--black barathea.

If, on the other hand, you are thinking of an Argyll style jacket just for black tie evening events, then the sky's pretty much the limit! For a work-horse jacket for most people, silk lapels would be a splendid choice. You could have an evening Argyll jacket made in velvet, and have either velvet lapels or go wth silk either of the same colour or a contrasting colour.

Re-reading your post, though, does indicate to me that you are asking about the former style of Argyll--the black barathea one good for day/night! Keep the lapels wool.

[Bugbear]

Hi Ted,

If you have in mind the plain black Argyll jacket that can be worn to dressy daytime functions as well as to evening black tie events, then the lapels would have to be of the same material as the rest of the jacket--black barathea.

If, on the other hand, you are thinking of an Argyll style jacket just for black tie evening events, then the sky's pretty much the limit! For a work-horse jacket for most people, silk lapels would be a splendid choice. You could have an evening Argyll jacket made in velvet, and have either velvet lapels or go wth silk either of the same colour or a contrasting colour.

Re-reading your post, though, does indicate to me that you are asking about the former style of Argyll--the black barathea one good for day/night! Keep the lapels wool.

This would be in place of a tuxedo as Highland, black tie attire, and not daywear.

I think that answered most of the questions, JSFMACLJR; thank you. I do still wonder though about the facings of the cuffs and pocket flaps. Would they need to be the same as the silk lapel facings, or could they be of the same material as the jacket?

I am thinking mainly of a jacket with the cut or length of a Argyle, but for black tie attire only.

It would likely be warn with a three button or formal waistcoat of some sort and black bow tie.
It would have the Argyle cuffs, the scaloped pocket flaps, and the silver buttons etc.

I don't think it would be velvet, but it would be of a fine weave, black wool.

The back of the jacket would most likely have the basic construction of an Argyle with the two side vents and back flap.
It would also have braided epauletts.

i]I might have a jacket to work with, but I am looking to the traditional forum for guidelines on these details to figure out what might be possible.[/i]

[JSFMACLJR]

Ted,
You certainly could have the cuffs made of the same corded silk as the lapels. Pretty sharp, but not essential on this type of jacket. I would have black silk lapels, and cuffs and pocket flaps of cloth.

For what it's worth, my blue velvet doublet has lapels and cuffs of scarlet silk. My tartan doublet has lapels and pocket flaps of dark green velvet.

Sandford

[Colonel MacNeal]

Be sure to post some pics when this is ready - sounds great - gotta see this.
Cheers, ColMac

[EagleJCS]

Ted, I have one of the jackets in question. I usually wear it with my pipe band uniform when the weather calls for it (below 65 F or so). It's been a long time since I've worn it with my personal kilt during the day (most times it's too warm to be wearing a jacket, and I don't wear my kilt that often anyhow). It's very formal for most daytime functions, except maybe a wedding or other ceremony.

Made by Locharron (the label inside says 'Raymond of Doune by Locharron'), the jacket is all of the same material - lapels, pocket flaps, epaulettes and cuffs match the jacket body - which I presume is barathea. The label on the other side says '100% wool'. It has 'gauntlet' style cuffs and a one-button closure.

There are three buttons across the cuff, and three buttons on each of the pocket flaps. The pocket flaps are slightly escalloped at the bottom.

The buttons on the pocket flaps are in a straight line. The buttons on the cuffs are at an angle across the cuff (following the edge of the 'gauntlet') instead of going up the outside of the sleeve as with a Prince Charlie.

The cuffs, epaulettes and pocket flaps also have sewn-in 'ridges' (the only way I know to describe what it looks like ). The buttons are in line with the ridges. (The epaulettes are obviously not the braided style found on some jackets, and they have just one button).

The back is fairly plain, with two vents (like a standard length double-breasted jacket would have) and no buttons.

The buttons themselves are the square, embossed, chromed buttons. All but the closure button are the smaller (1.5 cm or a little over 1/4") buttons. The closure button is a little over 2 cm (or about 1/2").

Hope that helps.

---
Gee, sounds like I'm the emcee at a fashion show.

[Bugbear]

Thank you, JSFMACLJR, and EagleJCS; your discriptions have helped a great deal.

In one of my old threads, MOR did tell me that a black, pin wale, corduroy jacket with an Argyle cut and "ribbed" silk lapels and cuff would make a very good evening wear jacket.

That is not the jacket I am thinking about for the questions I am asking. However, the use of velvet or a napped material for an evening wear jacket, JSFMACLJR, is interesting to me. The jackets you describe sound very nice.

[Bugbear]

Be sure to post some pics when this is ready - sounds great - gotta see this.
Cheers, ColMac

Well, here is what happened. I found a tuxedo jacket at a Good Will for ten dollars. It is made of a very nice wool and has silky feeling lapels. However, the lapels are notched rather than peaked or shawl.

I had no idea that knotched lapels on a tuxedo are so hated by the people out there on the style forums. I kind of like them on a single breasted tux. Anyway, I will have to decide what to do with this jacket. If not convert it, then I will need to get the other parts of the tuxedo ensemble; some of which could also be used with a kilt like a waistcoat etc...

I did need to check in with what is traditional, and I'm moving back toward the MOR corduroy evening Argyle as what I would prefer. The information about the lapels and cuff materiels does help a great deal.

* I do happen to have about a square yard of black silk. It is not a corded weave, but it is also not a satin weave. If I ever find a black corduroy jacket... I know what to do. *

Thanks.

[Bugbear]

I got the notched lapel tuxedo jacket back from the cleaners this after noon. I put the kilt and the jacket on, and looked at where the bottom of the lapel roll, button, and pockets are in relation to the kilt.

Having done two conversions, I think I can say that it would convert quite well into an Argyle style (or cut) formal kilt jacket. I will have to take mesurements to figure out if the material that would be removed from the bottom of the jacket will be wide enough to make cuffs with, in addition to the pocket flaps.

I don't know that I would be able to find a matching pair of tuxedo pants for this jacket, and to add to that that notched lapel tuxedos are not well liked by the styleish... I don't think I should waist my money on trying to built a tuxedo outfit with it.

I would try to make something fairly traditional looking, and there will be a signifigant amount of retailoring to do, but no where as much as starting from scratch.

Thank you all for your input and ideas.

[Highland Rogue]

If you ever run across a tail-coat you could easily convert it into a Prince Charlie.