Assistance needed in the identification of this tartan.

**Herr Doktor** · 10th August 11, 10:30 AM

I am seeking assistance with the identification of this tartan. It is an older, heavy weight kilt that is pleated to the line in the military fashion. Small waist sizing at 26 inches. The fabric is on the coarser end of the scale. I am going to go out on the branch and assume it is a military kilt. Feel free to provide the saw.

Cheers!

**English Bloke** · 10th August 11, 11:24 AM

Looks like The 79th (Cameron of Erracht) tartan, as worn by the Cameron Highlanders. One of the few military tartans not derived from the 42nd (Black Watch) tartan. I believe it finds it origins in the MacDonald sett.

Edit:

You can see it worn here by the Pipe Major and Drum Major of the Somme Battlefield Pipe Band in Villers Bretonneux, France, Anzac Day 2010.

**figheadair** · 10th August 11, 11:32 PM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

Looks like The 79th (Cameron of Erracht) tartan, as worn by the Cameron Highlanders. One of the few military tartans not derived from the 42nd (Black Watch) tartan. I believe it finds it origins in the MacDonald sett.

I can't see the image on the computer that I'm using but I'll take the reply to be correct.

The comment about the MacDonald tartan being the source is probably a myth. Both the Clan Donald and Erracht tartan appeared at about the same time and it's entirely possible that the former was a Fencible or Malitia sett.

**English Bloke** · 11th August 11, 12:10 AM

Well well, I'll bow to you on this. I've read of the MacDonald origins from various sources, paper and t'interweb but I suppose that's what happens with myths, they become quotable fact quite quickly. Bit like Mel Gibson's history of Scotland is all true.

Thanks for putting me straight. It still remains an unquestionably handsome tartan with a wealth of proud heritage.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 11th August 11, 04:58 AM

That is the Cameron tartan, and if Peter could have seen the image he would have beat me to the punch. What you see in the tartan as a sort of "olive green" would have been originally black. I have encountered several older military kilts where the black dye has faded to this sort of drab color. Makes for a really distinctive kilt!

Peter could probably say more about the technical reasons why this occurs.

**figheadair** · 11th August 11, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

That is the Cameron tartan, and if Peter could have seen the image he would have beat me to the punch. What you see in the tartan as a sort of "olive green" would have been originally black. I have encountered several older military kilts where the black dye has faded to this sort of drab color. Makes for a really distinctive kilt!

Peter could probably say more about the technical reasons why this occurs.

I still don't have sight of the image (this machine) but from the description it sounds like a c1900-60 military issue OR's Cheviot Kilt. I expect that it'll have green baize piping at the top and white serge lining.

Black is the most interesting of the dyes colours insofar as both traditional natural and artificial dyes fade in a similar way i.e. out though charcoal to a greenish khaki.

There are no true natural black tartan dyes and the colour was obtained by top dyeing an off-black that is a dark grey or dark brown type shade with indigo to get a good blue-black. The most common dyestuffs were Oak or Alder bark both of which have a heavy tannin content. It's comprehensible how these may alter over time to reveal the under-shade although I don't understand the chemistry as indigo used on its own is pretty light fast.

What's interesting is why artificial blacks fade similarly. Again, I'm not a chemist but it must be something to do with the chemical nature of the dye but why it happens to black but not dark blue I cannot say.

With every other colour the natural and artificial dyes shades fade differently with the natural fading, unless they are light fast like indigo, to a paler shade whereas artificial dyes will often change colour as opposed to shade.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 11th August 11, 08:17 AM

Peter,

The photos don't show the top band or the lining, but the fading in the black is how you would imagine.

**English Bloke** · 11th August 11, 11:57 AM

Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Cameron Or Cameron of Erracht?

,

I thought this was Cameron as per Vestiarium Scoticum?

Gor blimey! Out of my depth again...

**MacMillans son** · 11th August 11, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

Sorry, I'm a bit confused.

Cameron Or Cameron of Erracht?

,

I thought this was Cameron as per Vestiarium Scoticum?

Gor blimey! Out of my depth again...

Perhaps John, but ya can't learn to swim from the shore mate. Good on ya for given it a go!

**davidlpope** · 11th August 11, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

That is the Cameron tartan, and if Peter could have seen the image he would have beat me to the punch. What you see in the tartan as a sort of "olive green" would have been originally black. I have encountered several older military kilts where the black dye has faded to this sort of drab color. Makes for a really distinctive kilt!

Peter could probably say more about the technical reasons why this occurs.

Matt,

So the black went to olive green, the blue went to "Hodden Gray", and the green went to a dark, bluish green? Perhaps the dyes have faded very bizarrely, but it seems like the green and the blue fields are mixed up in the sett...