Panache Answers the "Big Kilt Questions"

[sevenoaks]

Thank you Panache for posting this.

It answers any questions I may have had with you stating "...if YOU like it ... wear it!"

To me the negative point of view is the same as someone telling one to never grow a yellow rose as all roses are originally red! darn ....maybe they were pink ....mmm

And as far as the Irish/Scottish question goes, is easy to know who is what... simply ask them there name and if it starts with "Mc" then he is obviously a Scot.. If his name starts with an "O" then he must be Irish. If he wearing p--ts then it is crystal clear that he is nether a Scot nor is he Irish. Now if the guy is wearing blue-jeans then he must be French as denim material was originally manufactured in Nim, France. ie De-Nim. He should never be mistaken for an American or Canadian as this could be offensive to him. Now..should his Lady be wearing a silk scarf or dress then she must be an Asian....see how totally irrelevant this all becomes by constantly insisting we should all conform!

As Panache stated "if you like it..wear it."

[hkjrb623]

Great post. I've never had anyone ask if I was Irish while kilted. I've actually had someone ask if it was "one of those Celtic things", and another yell "Scottish pride!" while passing in his truck. Having mostly Scottish heritage and an Irish great-grandmother, I can fortunately say yes to most any question.

Thanks for posting so much information on these subjects. I love the end result of "wear what you want".

[Mike_Oettle]

It seems to me that Sevenoaks was being ironic with his remark about Mc and O’ – see further what he says about denim being French and silk, Asian.
But be da veva is off the mark when he derives Mick from Mc/Mac. The usage of calling Irishmen Micks originates in the common occurrence of the name Michael (my own name, too) among the Irish.
This does not mean the name is exclusively Irish, either. Since it is the name of an archangel, there are forms of it to be found wherever there are Christians (and Jews).
I was named for a family friend who was of English, Scottish and Boer descent, and primarily English-speaking. An 18th-century German ancestor of mine was coincidentally also Michael (different pronunciation).
And bear in mind that the largest ship built and operated by the Scottish navy was called the Great Michael. It was the largest ship in Europe at the time.
Regards,
Mike

[McElmurry]

And as far as the Irish/Scottish question goes, is easy to know who is what... simply ask them there name and if it starts with "Mc" then he is obviously a Scot.. If his name starts with an "O" then he must be Irish.

Not necessarily. Mc is simply the abbreviation for Mac which is the modern universal English spelling for "son of" in both Scots Gaelic and Irish Gaeilge.

Many surnames developed simultaneously in Ireland and Scotland so the Mc prefix is not much help when attempting to determine origin of name. Although it does narrow it down to a region that spoke some form of Gaelic/Gaeilge.

[Dale Seago]

Not necessarily. Mc is simply the abbreviation for Mac which is the modern universal English spelling for "son of" in both Scots Gaelic and Irish Gaeilge.

Many surnames developed simultaneously in Ireland and Scotland so the Mc prefix is not much help when attempting to determine origin of name. Although it does narrow it down to a region that spoke some form of Gaelic/Gaeilge.

***

[be da veva]

And as far as the Irish/Scottish question goes, is easy to know who is what... simply ask them there name and if it starts with "Mc" then he is obviously a Scot.. If his name starts with an "O" then he must be Irish.

Actually I've been told that Mc is irish and Mac is scottish. And to make matters worse, every Mc someone I met was irish every Mac somebodyelse was scot.... Hence the irish being calles Mics or Mikeys in a derogotary (sp?) way...

[Geoff Withnell]

Actually, uniformity in spelling is a relatively recent invention. I am told Shakespeare spelled his name over 2 dozen different ways at various times. Add in the rather sketchy level of literacy of the masses in most historical times, and minor differences in spelling become essentially useless for distinguishing between such closely related groups. Heck, my great grandfather, from letters I have seen, sometimes spelled our family name Whithnell, and sometimes Withnel.

Actually I've been told that Mc is irish and Mac is scottish. And to make matters worse, every Mc someone I met was irish every Mac somebodyelse was scot.... Hence the irish being calles Mics or Mikeys in a derogotary (sp?) way...

[Frank McGrath]

Actually I've been told that Mc is irish and Mac is scottish. And to make matters worse, every Mc someone I met was irish every Mac somebodyelse was scot.... Hence the irish being calles Mics or Mikeys in a derogotary (sp?) way...

So many names were changed by the registrars at Ellis Island. It is so very hard to trace Geneology back to the old sod when names get changed.

[artificer]

So many names were changed by the registrars at Ellis Island. It is so very hard to trace Geneology back to the old sod when names get changed.

Compound this with the fact that many immigrants couldn't read or write, and heavy accents or only passing familiarity with English and things get even hairier!

ith:

[Steve Ashton]

Hi folks,

This original intent of this thread was a really good essay by Panache.

The thread is now waaay off that topic and on to other things.

Out of respect for Panache and the work he put into his essay would it be too much to ask that the current topic be taken to it's own thread?

I will give you a few days to start another thread then I would like to lock this thread and make it a sticky so we do not lose the important work contained in the first few pages.

I think you will agree that if you were a new member, looking for good solid information, that the original topic of this thread would be a great resource. I think you can also agree that we should respect that and preserve it for our members.