A story of Kilted Attention or: Why I can't go commando!

[Drac]

Well, the rule thing sort of relates to elements of our discussion; There are some "Wench's Guilds" in the faire community, and one of their things is to walk around faire and 'wench' people, this usually consists of kissing them on the cheek and leaving a lipstick mark. They also do the 'organized' kilt checks as well.

Most of the 'rules' we've mentioned about checks at renfaire came about because somebody got upset at some point, and griped to faire management that some woman tried to touch their no-no place. There are actually some faires that have a "zero tolerance" policy towards wenchings and kilt checks, I think the Maryland Renaissance Festival is like that, no kilt checks. I've also heard there are some where they issue a ribbon for wenching instead of the kiss on the cheek thing, so I assume somebody somewhere complaned about getting a peck on the cheek as well

Closest things to that at Scarborough is while on parade (all kilted garbed gents are invited to march as Queen Margaret's Guard) there is an older lady who has a booth puts a mirror on the ground (far enough away for modesty) and complements our knees. Also the Ladys of Negotiable Virtue make ribald suggestions to make the ranks smile.

Let's be fair here, in all the Fairs I've been to none of the actors or playtrons have ever done anything like crude. Every time it has been a paytron who seems to think that a Fair is an anything goes enviorment.

Jim

[J_Mimbs]

(RenFaire folks should realize that, historically, uninvited touching was much LESS tolerated in that period than nowadays. Laying hands on a stranger was an occasion for drawn swords and split skulls!)

Problem number 1 is assuming that folks at Ren Faires know anything significant about history!

Seriously though, I'm seeing different ideas about what "Kilt Checks" are, and multiple potential environments that they might be performed. Until everyone involved in the discussion can agree on what is actually being discussed, then this thread is just going to continue to go around in circles.

[Zardoz]

Problem number 1 is assuming that folks at Ren Faires know anything significant about history!

Well, I think the average rennie, the garbed faire regular, not the typical patron, actually knows quite a bit about history. I know I certainly do, more than some people care for! I just don't think about it too much at faire. Renfaire for most of us is not historical reenactment, it's about fun, fellowship, pretty girls, music, dressing up, people watching, food and drink etc...


Historically accurate?, No. Most fun you can have with your clothes on?, Heck yes!

This is a whole other topic though.

[tundramanq]

woodsheal - That is the origin of the right "sword" hand shake between friends.

I should add that the events I go to are not open to the public , they are invitation only and people who get ugly drunk and out of control will be brought under control and will not hear about the next gathering.

[J_Mimbs]

Well, I think the average rennie, the garbed faire regular, not the typical patron, actually knows quite a bit about history. I know I certainly do, more than some people care for! I just don't think about it too much at faire. Renfaire for most of us is not historical reenactment, it's about fun, fellowship, pretty girls, music, dressing up, people watching, food and drink etc...

Yes, quite. The steampunk forum I'm a part of has a similar conversation going on, historical accuracy vs. romanticism and fun. (And I guess I should point out, I'm often sarcastic in real life, and I forget that my sarcastic sense of humor does not translate well across the internet. Sorry.)



Moving back towards the topic, the point you make is why if I went to a Ren Faire kilted I wouldn't be the least offended if a girl wanted to kilt check me (politely of course). But the locale and the way its done make all the difference.

[Alan H]

Sure, Matt, I can do that.

I'm sorry that what I wrote has made you so upset. I honestly did not intend it to be aimed specifically at YOU, but rather as a post directed at folks who generally hold more conservative values. You happened to be the one of those that I know of who posted in here.

Regarding decency and personal dignity, I agree that you and I are a whole lot more in agreement than we are in disagreement.

But yank the post... pshaw...sure!

PS: **added later**....BTW, I've never had a problem with Matt Newsome, his posting on X Marks, his beliefs, or pretty much anything about the guy. He contributes a vast amount of knowledge to X Marks and we're all better off for having him around. Truth.

[Alan H]

So let's try again, eh?.

I have friends who have tattoos', speak loudly, have jobs which aren't exactly glamorous, may drink a lot (or not), sometimes use a bunch of foul language, and generally would stick out like a red thumb in "polite society".

They're not totally unaware of what's appropriate and what isn't, but they will err on the side of what many would consider rude and ribald. Their "line" of what's proper and what isn't is not in the same place as perhaps....yours is, or mine, or someone else's. My friends who are like this also have enough sense to know that yanking a strangers kilt up is obnoxious behavior in pretty much all situations. They understand the difference between work and a bar.... or the Caledonian Society ball and a rave on the beach. They are not so dull-witted that they can't discern (usually) who would be angered and insulted by a personal comment, or a "kilt lift" and who would laugh it off.

However, a butt-whack to a friend, compounded with a comment which may or may not contain language which some might find "crass" might be just fine, and commonly done between friends...while admiring said friends newest tattoo, or congratulating them on PR in the weight throw, or giving them guff over how much more they can bench press than their friend.

In other words, while they are not without some reasonable awareness of appropriateness and integrity, they would probably offend a LOT of more "genteel" folks on X Marks.

However, these people ALSO have a place in the "world of kilting" and while many of our more conservative X Marks members may find them coarse, many of them are more than willing to spend large parts of their lives doing work which makes the world a better place, or helping out at the end of the day.

Please do not discount people like this....and a bunch of my throwing friends are like this....in your "kilted universe". Do not decide by their appearance or their language that they are amoral people, without value. BAD people...or "low class". It just ain't so. There is generosity, kindness and respect in my friends whom many of you would probably be horrified to interact with, and were they to post on X Marks, they'd be gone in a week.

Live and let live...and all that.

[tundramanq]

Some of the people at the reenactmant events that I have never seen in kilts have noted that my "newfangled" side buckles and straps are not period correct. Got me - never crossed my mind. Some really know their stuff.
They are OK that I don't want to wrestle with a great kilt though. I can see me laying 9 yards of wool blanket out and pleating on the ground and then dealing with the summer heat thus clad. Them old Scots were tough!

[Jock Scot]

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They are OK that I don't want to wrestle with a great kilt though. I can see me laying 9 yards of wool blanket out and pleating on the ground and then dealing with the summer heat thus clad. Them old Scots were tough!

Summer heat? SUMMER HEAT? What's that!? "Them old Scots" were indeed tough, but summer heat was not something that they endured too often, well on home territory anyway!

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Alan,

Thank you for deleting your other post. I think your most recent posts makes the same points much more eloquently and respectfully, without having to set up straw men or make personal attacks.

I've deleted my replies to your previous post, and think I'm now going to take a bow out of this particular thread, and move on to bigger and better things...