formal evening dress: vest or no?

[JSFMACLJR]

Thanks, Jock.

I'm having to unlearn some things suddenly.

I think it is time for me to stand back from the formal Highland attire discussions, now.

Please don't, Ted! I, for one, value your insight.

[Bugbear]

Please don't, Ted! I, for one, value your insight.

Thanks. It is a little difficult to deal with having learned that the jabot can be worn with any of the formal highland jackets, including the formal dress Argyle, then suddenly several people are saying it is for white tie and only to be worn with the doublets other than the PC.

When MacMillan of Rathdown has told me, directly, that the jabot can be properly worn with either a dress Argyle or a PC, along with the high throat waistcoat, or even an Eton jacket, I end up feeling that I am being singled out for his information, rather than the arguement being taken to him. He has been discussing this, here on the forum, for years now. I know very little about Highland attire, beyond what has been discussed on the forum.

[Zardoz]

Ted, CMcG, I think the bottom line on a lot of this stuff is that there is no bottom line.

While you, or anyone, should certainly take the advice, opinions, and/or photographic evidence from members of this forum into consideration when thinking about your Highlandwear choices, let them help you to make YOUR choices about YOUR personal style, not dictate them. Let the examples here be your guides, not your gospel. Like Jock said, it would be no fun if we all dressed alike.

The question CMcG asked about the PC/waistcoat/belt/cravat etc. issue in his OP is a good example, while there is a consensus about those issues in this thread, one does not have to look far on the interwebs to find lots of conflicting info. You can likely google-up a bunch of photos, various websites, and even older threads on this forum, to support any of the different options mentioned.

[MacLowlife]

I like the jabot and look forward to seeing people wear it, be it for white or black tie, or just because it is so much fun to mess with people ( Epater les Bourgeoises). And, to some degree, a lot of this discussion is like Fantasy Football- we do wear these things, but many of us describe them more than we actually put them on.

I hope I am wrong there.

And wrong is probably what I am about Traditional vs Historical, especially in THIS forum, but I think it is useful to remember that Traditional either evolves or it is merely another word for Historical.

I expect a handy and practical trick is to find a picture of the outfit one contemplates, many of which are above, and to ask oneself "Will that look good on me? Do I like the way that looks?" And there is your answer. We all seem to agree about the ruche tie and the 5 button waistcoat, but millions of Chavs can't be wrong, can they?

As DLP said about my own folly, de gustibus non est disputandem.

[Jordan]

We all seem to agree about the ruche tie and the 5 button waistcoat, but millions of Chavs can't be wrong, can they?

If millions of chav's jumped off a cliff would you follow them?

Am I the only one who would prefer to take my jacket off if it’s too warm than wear my PC without a waistcoat?

And Ted if you want to wear a jabot with an argyle or PC for anything formal I would say go for it.

Jordan

[Lyle1]

Am I the only one who would prefer to take my jacket off if it’s too warm than wear my PC without a waistcoat?

A lot of people still think that a gentleman does not remove his jacket in public, and there are still a few venues where a gentleman will be asked to put his jacket back on or to leave! Personally, I don't completely (mostly, but not completely) agree with that point of view, but I would rather forgo a waistcoat and keep my jacket on, particularly at a formal event.

[Zardoz]

A lot of people still think that a gentleman does not remove his jacket in public, and there are still a few venues where a gentleman will be asked to put his jacket back on or to leave! Personally, I don't completely (mostly, but not completely) agree with that point of view, but I would rather forgo a waistcoat and keep my jacket on, particularly at a formal event.

This is what the backless style waistcoat is for, Plus it has the advantage of being adjustible.

[Zardoz]

A lot of people still think that a gentleman does not remove his jacket in public, and there are still a few venues where a gentleman will be asked to put his jacket back on or to leave! Personally, I don't completely (mostly, but not completely) agree with that point of view, but I would rather forgo a waistcoat and keep my jacket on, particularly at a formal event.

I also mostly agree with that. I was taught as a youngster that it was not considered appropriate to remove your tuxedo coat at a formal, thus exposing your suspenders, cummerbund clasp and wrinkled shirt. I apply the same logic to formal kiltwear as well, particularly since I usually wear a backless waistcoat.

The proper time to remove your jacket? When you go to bed.

[JSFMACLJR]

Am I the only one who would prefer to take my jacket off if it’s too warm than wear my PC without a waistcoat?

Unfortunately no!

[Jordan]

A lot of people still think that a gentleman does not remove his jacket in public, and there are still a few venues where a gentleman will be asked to put his jacket back on or to leave! Personally, I don't completely (mostly, but not completely) agree with that point of view, but I would rather forgo a waistcoat and keep my jacket on, particularly at a formal event.

I don’t mean not put a jacket on when getting ready but putting on the full kit jacket waistcoat etc and if it’s a little warm removing the jacket and carrying on my merry way.

Unfortunately no!

Sorry my friend but can I ask why?

One thing to keep in mind would be that for most people on the "far" side of the pond a nice day in Scotland is still way too cold by your standards.


Jordan